Tea Baggers

[annarborgator]

Well that's fine.  And people have the right to do what they want.  But when this event is organized by Dick Armey's lobbying group and sponsored by Fox "News", don't try to tell me that this is some grass roots movement.  More like Astroturf.  And this will not get Republicans back into power.  Mark my words on that.

One other thing I can guarantee you - if we had a President McCain, none of this would be going on.

Quite frankly, I find a lot of humor in this whole thing.  Many of the people involved don't know what they are saying when they call themselves loyal teabaggers.  It makes me laugh.   :laugh:

Ya know what makes me laugh? Your hubris.

From the Market Ticker:

I'm stunned.

Washington DC's Pelosi (Speaker of The House) and many of the so-called "drive by" media are trying to play off the "Tea Parties" as some sort of right-wing partisan thing.

They're wrong.

I was one of the first to call for mailing Tea Bags to legislators.
{. . .}
And by the way, I stole it from Tickerforum, where it was suggested.

To those who wish to call me some sort of "right-wing hack" I will simply reply that you have not been reading The Ticker.  I have been an equal-opportunity rabid dog with my mighty Internet Pen, calling on the carpet both Democrats and Republicans in their mishandling and outright complicity in this economic mess.

Washington is known for not listening to The States or The People.  Proof?  300:1 dissent from The People on TARP's passage - they passed it anyway.  That 300:1 dissent partially was the reason for President Obama's victory.  He didn't give a damn, and not only has continued the bailouts he has refused to prosecute the thieves.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/963-An-Open-Challenge-To-The-States.html

And I can verify that tea parties have been discussed on the ticker forums and on the Market Ticker for quite a while. They were talking about tea parties and mailing teabags to politicians way back, even before Rick Santelli's call for a tea party. I'm fairly certain Denninger (the guy who publishes Market Ticker) voted for Obama.

So don't assume that this is all the GOP making up some nonsense. It started with regular folks discussing the problems with our country.

[annarborgator]

Nice report on the Niceville, FL tea party from Denninger. The whole thing is worth reading:

The only "notice" we had of our "Tea Party" was a few signs posted at major intersections - yard-style political signs. I didn't even know about our local Tea Party until I drove by one yesterday. There was no advertising on the TV, no big push to "make it happen." Our example of the "Tea Party" was about as close to authentic "grass roots" as one will ever find.

I was late to the party but there was a nice crowd - a few hundred people. In a town of this size, at lunchtime (the party was at noon), that's fairly impressive, considering that most of the people that live here are very ordinary "working stiffs." The attendees were a fairly decent cross-section of men and woman with all ages represented; the kids were in school.

There was much talk about The Fair Tax, which is a good thing. But there was not, until I got there, much in the way of real attention being paid to the podium or the people doing the speaking.

Then they gave me the microphone for a couple of minutes.

I delivered an ad-hoc and shorter version of my AIM Acceptance Speech, focused on one simple message: That this mess was not "unable to be foreseen", in fact, it was very obvious - if you looked.

But what got attention was the following line:

Stop the looting and start prosecuting.

The crowd erupted into applause.

Washington, wake the hell up. We the people are mad as hell and we don't intend to take this any more. About 15 years ago Washington was treated to a small version of The People's Ire in the form of the "Gingrich Revolution", where The House and Senate had major turnovers.

The Media has roundly reported this event was some sort of "right wing" conspiracy.

Hardly.

While I'm sure you could find some examples of "Tea Parties" that were heavily partisan, here, in what many people call "God's Country" (we vote overwhelmingly Republican by insane margins) there was no Democrat-bashing or material partisanship in evidence.

What was evident was strong resistance to government theft and covering up the culpability of those both inside the beltway and beyond in what has turned into a tax-fest for Washington while bailing out those who committed evil and in fact felonious acts.

Democrats, Republicans, doesn't matter. You want to steal from Americans and then try to borrow and spend out of the hole that these policies of "hands-off" toward literal bank robbery generates?

America has, if there's anything to be learned from yesterday, had enough of this crap.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/961-Tea-Party-Report-Washington,-Youre-On-Notice.html

So. I've given you evidence that the tea parties were, in fact, not simply a GOP ploy but the work of ordinary citizens. And they were not simply bashing democrats. The truth is there are tons of people in this country who are PISSED with good reason. Ignore it if you want.

[urapnes]

my issue with the baggers is as follows: they are protesting the policies they fought so hard for when bush was in office. in fact, obama's policies are not yet in place.

between reagan, bush I and bush II, we have a national debt of $9,000,0000,000; (clinton restored us to a surplus and was working toward lowering our national debt) our country is financed by foreign debt and our manufacturing companies have incentives vis-a-vie taxes to ship our jobs overseas.

the tea bag parties yesterday is a marketing ploy to try and place all blame on our economy squarely on obama and to make people think they are being taxed higher than ever eventhough obama just passed the largest tax cut to 95% of the working people in decades.

[annarborgator]

Way too simple an explanation. And too partisan. It misses the real point.

[MinGator]

agreed

[slideman67]

Well that's fine.  And people have the right to do what they want.  But when this event is organized by Dick Armey's lobbying group and sponsored by Fox "News", don't try to tell me that this is some grass roots movement.  More like Astroturf.  And this will not get Republicans back into power.  Mark my words on that.

One other thing I can guarantee you - if we had a President McCain, none of this would be going on.

Quite frankly, I find a lot of humor in this whole thing.  Many of the people involved don't know what they are saying when they call themselves loyal teabaggers.  It makes me laugh.   :laugh:

Ya know what makes me laugh? Your hubris.

From the Market Ticker:

I'm stunned.

Washington DC's Pelosi (Speaker of The House) and many of the so-called "drive by" media are trying to play off the "Tea Parties" as some sort of right-wing partisan thing.

They're wrong.

I was one of the first to call for mailing Tea Bags to legislators.
{. . .}
And by the way, I stole it from Tickerforum, where it was suggested.

To those who wish to call me some sort of "right-wing hack" I will simply reply that you have not been reading The Ticker.  I have been an equal-opportunity rabid dog with my mighty Internet Pen, calling on the carpet both Democrats and Republicans in their mishandling and outright complicity in this economic mess.

Washington is known for not listening to The States or The People.  Proof?  300:1 dissent from The People on TARP's passage - they passed it anyway.  That 300:1 dissent partially was the reason for President Obama's victory.  He didn't give a damn, and not only has continued the bailouts he has refused to prosecute the thieves.

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/963-An-Open-Challenge-To-The-States.html

And I can verify that tea parties have been discussed on the ticker forums and on the Market Ticker for quite a while. They were talking about tea parties and mailing teabags to politicians way back, even before Rick Santelli's call for a tea party. I'm fairly certain Denninger (the guy who publishes Market Ticker) voted for Obama.

So don't assume that this is all the GOP making up some nonsense. It started with regular folks discussing the problems with our country.

My hubris makes you laugh? Really. Well we shall see in the future, won't we. As I have said many times in this thread, this is not an issue that will get Republicans back to power. It is a gimmick pure and simple. And again, I am inteigued by your interest in this. Why do you care if you think the country is fucked anyway?

Until then, I will be laughing my ass off at the teabaggers. Jon Stewart aptly pointed out last night - these people are protesting wasteful spending by wasting money on tea they intend to throw out. Real smart.

[slideman67]

From Anderson Cooper. Listen at the end to what he says before David Gergen laughs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I64Ed5iLu4M#noexternalembed

[annarborgator]

My hubris makes you laugh? Really. Well we shall see in the future, won't we. As I have said many times in this thread, this is not an issue that will get Republicans back to power. It is a gimmick pure and simple. And again, I am inteigued by your interest in this. Why do you care if you think the country is fucked anyway?

Until then, I will be laughing my ass off at the teabaggers. Jon Stewart aptly pointed out last night - these people are protesting wasteful spending by wasting money on tea they intend to throw out. Real smart.

And I think you're insane to reject it as a mere gimmick. As if the rational positions of free thinking individuals should be ignored and dismissed out of hand. I tend to listen to people's reasons for their positions and then make a judgment.

I'm not sure if the country is already fucked beyond repair or if we are merely nearing that point. There are many times when I think it's hopeless, to be sure. But the machine is still running, albeit on fumes. And that means maybe, just maybe, if we don't continue to fuck things up royally, we can rebuild this sucker somehow.

How can you deny the issue most teabaggers always revert to: when TARP/EESA was originally debated in the House, constituent calls to Congressman (depending on the district) were running anywhere from 100:1 up to 300:1 AGAINST the bill. And those fucks rolled over and paid the banks off and set a precedent whereby the taxpayer is paying the float on these PRIVATE companies, and private individuals are reaping the benefits despite the risk being shifted to the PUBLIC.

So they ignored the command of their constituents and you don't give a fuck? You dismiss it out of hand without a second thought? How noble.

[annarborgator]

Hey slider, speaking of things we find funny....I found THIS hilarious:

Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.) blasted "tea party" protests yesterday, labeling the activities "despicable" and shameful."

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/04/16/schakowsky-tea-parties-despicable/

Especially considering THIS, from 2005:

CHICAGO (AP) — The husband of an Illinois congresswoman pleaded guilty Wednesday to tax violations and bank fraud for writing rubber checks and failing to collect withholding tax from an employee.

Robert Creamer, a political consultant married to four-term U.S. Rep. Jan Schakowsky, could face four years in prison on the two felony counts when he is sentenced Dec. 21.

Creamer, 58, a prominent Chicago political consultant, was accused of swindling nine financial institutions of at least $2.3 million while he ran a public interest group in the 1990s.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-31-congresswoman-husband_x.htm

As if the gentlelady from Illinois has ANY room to call ANYthing despicable. She should really STFU.

[slideman67]

My hubris makes you laugh? Really. Well we shall see in the future, won't we. As I have said many times in this thread, this is not an issue that will get Republicans back to power. It is a gimmick pure and simple. And again, I am inteigued by your interest in this. Why do you care if you think the country is fucked anyway?

Until then, I will be laughing my ass off at the teabaggers. Jon Stewart aptly pointed out last night - these people are protesting wasteful spending by wasting money on tea they intend to throw out. Real smart.

And I think you're insane to reject it as a mere gimmick. As if the rational positions of free thinking individuals should be ignored and dismissed out of hand. I tend to listen to people's reasons for their positions and then make a judgment.

I'm not sure if the country is already fucked beyond repair or if we are merely nearing that point. There are many times when I think it's hopeless, to be sure. But the machine is still running, albeit on fumes. And that means maybe, just maybe, if we don't continue to fuck things up royally, we can rebuild this sucker somehow.

How can you deny the issue most teabaggers always revert to: when TARP/EESA was originally debated in the House, constituent calls to Congressman (depending on the district) were running anywhere from 100:1 up to 300:1 AGAINST the bill. And those fucks rolled over and paid the banks off and set a precedent whereby the taxpayer is paying the float on these PRIVATE companies, and private individuals are reaping the benefits despite the risk being shifted to the PUBLIC.

So they ignored the command of their constituents and you don't give a fuck? You dismiss it out of hand without a second thought? How noble.

What I don't give a fuck about are "spontaneous" events organized and promoted by Fox "News" and politicians grasping at gimmicks instead of offering real solutions.

One thing you don't seem to realize - the market is driven more by perceptions than logic. And if these banks had failed, there would have been runs on banks the likes we hadn't seen since 1929. And you seem to think that the politicians who voted for this deal are overjoyed at having to do it. That would be a simplistic and incorrect view.

So yes, I will continue to laugh at these teabaggers.

[annarborgator]

Again, I simply cannot imagine why you think that our only options in dealing with the financial crisis were to either let the banks fail with no special support for the system and supporting the system by supporting each individual zombie bank (except a few tokens to show we're being "tough") with massive, direct, taxpayer funded subsidies. I mean, I know it's because those are the only things Obama talks about so those are the only real options, since somehow Obama decided that Americans don't believe in pre-privatization although its fully legal and supported by many well known economists.

Pre-privatization would allow us to kill off the zombie banks while maintaining the functionality of the system.

[urapnes]

Way too simple an explanation. And too partisan. It misses the real point.

i'm more than happy to discuss any and all issues with you, i'm not making things overly simple, just pointing out that the core reasons the tea baggers are out is in protests to the effects of the policies they fought so hard for.

the problem with most republican talking points is they over simplify everything, everything is either wright or wrong; black or white.

i've not read this thread in detail, but i can say that i disagree with many of your premises off the bat.

[urapnes]

and to say partisian....it's a fact that reagan, bush 1 and bush 2 exploded the deficit. it took clinton 7 years, but his 1993 budget paved the way to a balanced annual budget and surplus in 2000. that's not partisan, it's factual.

[MinGator]

A balanced budget and surplus borne out of overextended home financing credit, made possible by legislation Clinton signed into law, that now is the crux of the current problem.

[Tipmoose]

Urap: How much of that balanced Clinton budget was due to the fact that he had a newly elected Republican House of Representatives which would not let him spend as much as he wanted? (ie: Hillary-care)

[annarborgator]

Way too simple an explanation. And too partisan. It misses the real point.

i'm more than happy to discuss any and all issues with you, i'm not making things overly simple, just pointing out that the core reasons the tea baggers are out is in protests to the effects of the policies they fought so hard for.

the problem with most republican talking points is they over simplify everything, everything is either wright or wrong; black or white.

i've not read this thread in detail, but i can say that i disagree with many of your premises off the bat.

Of course you disagree, because you have no idea about the truth. You've made up your mind, just like slide, that the Tea Parties were a Republican ploy. If you think that's true, well, you have every right to be wrong.

[annarborgator]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hatRrIxpw2o#noexternalembed#

Again for the hard of hearing: No partisanship. Simply protesting against taxation without representation.

[annarborgator]

The lies really piss me the hell off:

From this week's New York Federal Reserve Board's "Empire State Manufacturing Survey":

Most respondents cited little or no difficulty obtaining financing for either long-term commitments (capital investment) or short-term needs (operating expenses). Moreover, fewer than 10 percent of those surveyed indicated that problems obtaining credit had adversely affected their production or sales.

A bigger surprise is that any manufacturing remains in New York State anymore!

In any case, the above but ignored statement by the New York Fed gives the lie to President Obama's argument that taxpayers need to subsidize Big Finance so that lending can resume. The truth is that the country overproduced beyond what it could afford in the last up-cycle. Let us be Green and use what we have rather than strain to satisfy the gods of output and employment, and just produce what we need and can afford, paying down debt and abjuring new debt along the way.

http://econblogreview.blogspot.com/2009/04/new-york-fed-proves-lack-of-lending.html

Muy interesante. Your President is a liar slide. Maybe it's shit like this that's got folks a little riled up, huh? Nahhhhh, couldn't be.

[AdGator02]

You know, DC should have a representative or two in Congress. They should be having the tea bagging parties.

[IHateUGAlyDawgs]

You know, DC should have a representative or two in Congress.

No they shouldn't.

DC is supposed to be the seat of the government and nothing more. A neutral meeting ground, if you will. It should not have any other say in the role of the government.

[annarborgator]

DC's lack of representation is a check on the power of the federal government as it decapitates the federal seat from having a say in federal matters in any direct way. It's a necessary check. There's a fundamental conflict of interest with DC having federal representation.

[annarborgator]

And it continues....more evidence that Obama's taking a huge risk with this nonsense:

Obama’s budget will tip America into a debt-deflationary downward spiral if the IMF is right. No wonder the American public is slow to warm up to the stimulus plan—and why the public views the banking bailouts as throwing good money after bad.

The American people have a low opinion of government spending and contracting programs. We read creditable stories about missing billions in Iraq and missing trillions throughout the federal budget. We have seen how this administration has furthered Wall Street’s class warfare on the American people in its handling of the banking “bailout.” President Obama looks more and more like a fiscal Manchurian candidate.

http://animalspiritspage.blogspot.com/2009/04/america-close-to-tipping-point.html

Someone, anyone, please explain to me why we continue to listen to Keynesian claptrap??! Seriously. I want to know. There HAS to be a reason people believe that drivel.