Redeem the Prison Generation

Stick all your provocative and controversial topics here. Then stick them up your ass, you fascist Nazi!
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

So fucking sad:
With just 5 percent of the world's population, we cage almost a quarter of the world's prisoners – a trend that has accelerated wildly since the 1970s. If the 2.3 million Americans now behind bars joined the 5 million on parole or probation to form a city of their own, you'd have a population nearly twice that of Los Angeles. Feeling safer yet?

You shouldn't. The last decade's legendary drop in crime may be providing a false sense of security. Applying the murder rate as an index for overall crime, William J. Stuntz of Harvard Law School notes that advances in emergency medicine mean that one-fourth of victims now survive murder attempts that would have been fatal in the halcyon 1950s. Adjust for that factor, he says, and "a clear picture emerges: Outside the South, American cities are at least several times more violent than they were in the mid-20th century."

With exceptions (since justice is imperfect), inmates aren't innocents, of course. They all had victims, directly or indirectly. And many are plea bargainers suspected of more serious crimes that couldn't be proved in court. We're certainly right to err on the side of safety with violent offenders, drug and human traffickers, rapists, anyone guilty of child molestation – where there is no basis for trust and no room for error.

But the 10-fold increase since 1980 of incarceration for small-time drug use has put half a million people, one-fifth of the total prison population, behind bars. While crime comes in degrees, the basic risk assessment we apply to every other human enterprise – from military interventions to medicine to making children's toys – doesn't seem to apply here. Instead, the crudest and broadest possible sentencing mandates treat many offenders as domestic terrorists, with little regard for the severity of the crime or the risk to society.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0603/p09s04-coop.html

Does anyone care? Just curious.
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Tipmoose
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by Tipmoose »

Meh. Not really. *shrug*
Can't feed 'em? Don't breed 'em. People, dogs, whatever.
IHateUGAlyDawgs
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by IHateUGAlyDawgs »

I'm not buying that either, AA.

small time druggies who get busted w/ misdemeanor pot possession are serving no more than 1 yr. in jail and very few of them receive anything near that level.

I would argue we're locking people up because we are a more violent country with gangs and a general disregard for personal accountability and authority. Not because are judicial system is too harsh. Even if it is more harsh than other countries I'd argue that it's still mostly fair, IMO.
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

Why should drug users serve any time at all in criminal college (i.e. prison)?
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DocZaius
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by DocZaius »

That's the interesting question, isn't it? I mean, short of complete legalization, we could take the more humane approach and commit them to some kind of prison-like rehab program, couldn't we?

But I think that most addicts don't stop being addicts unless they truly want to change, so state-sponsored rehab isn't going to do much good, either.
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

I just don't see how it's a criminal justice issue. Seems like a healthcare issue to me. (Unless they commit other crimes in connection with their addiction)
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IHateUGAlyDawgs
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by IHateUGAlyDawgs »

I just don't see how it's a criminal justice issue. Seems like a healthcare issue to me. (Unless they commit other crimes in connection with their addiction)
which they almost always do. Have to support the habit, so you steal, cheat, rob, kill, or whatever.

Besides, like Doc said unless they WANT to be rehabilitated, they're not going to be. Say what you want about drugs and it being a personal issue. I don't buy it. I never will. When drugs become spread through a neighborhood, community, or whatever the area immediately goes to shit. It affects everyone around. If they aren't going to be or don't want to be rehabilitated the only way to stop it is to take the offenders off the streets. Since we can't exile people to some other country (unless they're illegals), then jail/prison is the next best option.
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

Almost always, huh? Have any numbers on that? I know plenty of folks who have supported their habit by going to work everyday and they never committed a crime.
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

Let's put everyone in prison while we're killing off the rest of the world...then our country would be absolutely free of crime too. Perfect, right?
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

Portugal is the best example of drug policy in the world.
On July 1, 2001, a nationwide law in Portugal took effect that decriminalized all drugs, including cocaine and heroin. Under the new legal framework, all drugs were "decriminalized," not "legalized." Thus, drug possession for personal use and drug usage itself are still legally prohibited, but violations of those prohibitions are deemed to be exclusively administrative violations and are removed completely from the criminal realm. Drug trafficking continues to be prosecuted as a criminal offense.

While other states in the European Union have developed various forms of de facto decriminalization — whereby substances perceived to be less serious (such as cannabis) rarely lead to criminal prosecution — Portugal remains the only EU member state with a law explicitly declaring drugs to be "decriminalized." Because more than seven years have now elapsed since enactment of Portugal's decriminalization system, there are ample data enabling its effects to be assessed.

Notably, decriminalization has become increasingly popular in Portugal since 2001. Except for some far-right politicians, very few domestic political factions are agitating for a repeal of the 2001 law. And while there is a widespread perception that bureaucratic changes need to be made to Portugal's decriminalization framework to make it more efficient and effective, there is no real debate about whether drugs should once again be criminalized. More significantly, none of the nightmare scenarios touted by preenactment decriminalization opponents — from rampant increases in drug usage among the young to the transformation of Lisbon into a haven for "drug tourists" — has occurred.

The political consensus in favor of decriminalization is unsurprising in light of the relevant empirical data. Those data indicate that decriminalization has had no adverse effect on drug usage rates in Portugal, which, in numerous categories, are now among the lowest in the EU, particularly when compared with states with stringent criminalization regimes. Although postdecriminalization usage rates have remained roughly the same or even decreased slightly when compared with other EU states, drug-related pathologies — such as sexually transmitted diseases and deaths due to drug usage — have decreased dramatically. Drug policy experts attribute those positive trends to the enhanced ability of the Portuguese government to offer treatment programs to its citizens — enhancements made possible, for numerous reasons, by decriminalization.
The full white paper (38 pages of analysis by Glenn Greenwald) is available here: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=10080
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DocZaius
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by DocZaius »

Quick question for you, AA, since this is obviously something that interests you:

How many folks are incarcerated for simple possession of a controlled substance? My experience, now several years ago, was that - at least in the 18th Judicial Circuit of Florida - felony drug possession usually landed you a spot in "drug court," where the offender was given a chance to go to rehab and prove he was clean and not go to jail.

Misdemeanor possession of marijuana - except for extreme repeat offenders - usually got a time served or small fine in my courtroom.

I have to imagine that similar programs are in place in various parts of the country.

So I guess what I'm saying is, what are the numbers nationwide? In my limited experience, casual drug use has already been decriminalized - if not by legislative action, then by the exercise of prosecutorial and judicial discretion.
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annarborgator
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by annarborgator »

It would not surprise me if you were right that casual drug use has been effectively decriminalized in some jurisdictions. I've never found great nationwide data about sentencing or prison population broken down by offense...I always just see it broken up into "violent", "property", "drug"...but never into the actual types of drug offenses. Just did a few more google searches and this is the only thing I found that attempted to break it down by type of drug offense (only covers a couple yankee states and is from a 1997 report to the CT Gen. Assembly so it's terribly dated):

States..............Total Pop..............Possession.............Percentage

Connecticut.......16,776...................1,001.....................5.1
New Hampshire....956.......................130.......................13.6
Rhode Island.......3,324.....................165......................4.9
Vermont.............1,000......................6.........................0.6

Fundamentally I just don't see any personal drug use as an inherently criminal act. Anyone know where to find stats broken down by offense type and not just the broad categories?
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IHateUGAlyDawgs
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Redeem the Prison Generation

Post by IHateUGAlyDawgs »

Doc nailed it. The people who are in jail or especially DOC have gone well past casual drug use.
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