PE Obama keeping Bush's tax cuts for now : Bush III?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:32 am

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/23/us/politics/23obama.html?_r=1&ref=business

sounds like a lot of the 'more of the same'

O0

In light of the downturn, Mr. Obama is also said to be reconsidering a key campaign pledge: his proposal to repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. According to several people familiar with the discussions, he might instead let those tax cuts expire as scheduled in 2011, effectively delaying any tax increase while he gives his stimulus plan a chance to work.

O0

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:16 am

I thought you were going to support him because he was your president? Hasn't even been sworn in and you have 47 threads questioning him. No need to respond, I see the hypocrisy.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:12 pm

i support and respect obama because he will be our next president of the US. i show support and respect by not calling him names like slide does bush. i don't see a reason why we can't discuss stuff intelligently though.

it's ironic you'll have to admit that mccain was called 'mcbush' yet obama's kinda got the same views bush has.

bluegrassg8r · Post by **bluegrassg8r** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:29 pm

I wonder how quickly the spittle would fly if any opponents of PE Obama were to engage in the sandbox level name calling that is the hallmark of the left?
Mach two, anyone?

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:32 pm

Barack Obush?

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:33 pm

PE Obama votes "Present" on the topic of keeping Bush's Tax Cuts.

bluegrassg8r · Post by **bluegrassg8r** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:06 pm

Again, pussy move. Already protecting his flank for 2012.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:01 am

Just imagine the campaign warchest he will wring from his lockstep followers as the incumbent. If he can keep the sheeple together, that is.

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:28 pm

This actually tells me more about Obama than anything that ever came out of his mouth did. It shows me he isn't locked into his own ideology and he can change directions if need be. I think he had every intention to reverse those cuts and raise the tax rate of those over 250k. However, we can all admit the economy is much worse and getting worse by the day then it was 6 months ago or 1.5 years ago when he started his campaign.

I like what he is doing in this directive.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:54 pm

re-negging on campaign promises is what it's called.

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:04 pm

It is called being a fucking grown up which apparently doesn't happen very often anymore. Have you never altered something you had planned on doing because of unforeseen circumstances? The economy, and country I might add, are tanking by the day and his plan he put together two years ago needs some altering.

I bet your a big fan of GM. Don't change anything, just business as usual until you fail.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:39 pm

you say changing your mind...but had it been someone else, you'd be saying re-negging too so spare us the double-talk bro....you say it's called being a grownup, i say it's promising a whole bag of stuff you knew could not be kept...and hoping you'd get voted in by the biggest turnout ever in the history of america based on stuff that's not realistic. it was a massive sandbag job....still - he's my president and i will respect him...not gonna stop me though from pointing out to those here that he's kinda adopting mccains platform....which is - YOU GUESSED IT!!! - GOOD FOR ME!!! LMAO!

not a fan of GMs business model

am a fan of keeping promises though.

if i'd voted for obama based on his agenda/platform (bringing the troops home pronto, change in DC, fixing bipartisanship, tax the rich, etc), i'd be very disappointed that he's not following through with all his promises he promised while seeking the job....fact is, the promises he promised while seducing america was unachievable...we all knew this...yet he kept on promising and promising...guess what? you got duped.

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:13 pm

Don't lump me in with slider, I am not an Obama homer. I would have given McCain, Bush, Hillary or any other candidate the same leeway. I will surely call him out if he does something that I think is bullshit. The only double talk getting done here is by you. You swear that you support him yet you have called him out more than all the other posters that openly don't like him combined, and he hasn't even taken office yet. Just man the fuck up and say you don't support him and quit this charade. You are either just trying to flame or you are the biggest hater I have ever met.

Now, as to broken promises. That is udder bullshit. When Obama(and McCain for that matter) put their agenda's together at least 1.5 to 2 years ago. At that time, it was the top of the real estate boom, an all-time high for the market and personal wealth. Companies were making money faster than they could spend it. Things have changed and the plan he put together two years ago when he started campaigning is not conducive to the current financial situation and economic conditions. I commend him for changing his philosophy based on those conditions. If the CEO of your company had made quick and decisive decisions and changed his business model to get more in line with the changing environment than you might still be employed.

Call it broken promises, call it reneging, call it any-fucking-thing you want. I call it being intelligent and understanding that the plan he had wasn't the best course of action at this time and making changes to it that go against his ideology to do what he thinks is best. I give that more weight than anyone who thinks you can never-ever-ever-ever change your mind or opinion on anything. Like I said, I bet you love General Motors business model.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:31 pm

he was calling for raising the taxes of the 'rich' up until the final week. what the heck are we talking 'bout?

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:48 pm

Have things not changed in the last month? Up until the election, all we heard about was how the bailout was going to fix this mess, free up the credit markets and get things back to normal(although some of us openly opposed it and knew it wouldn't work).

Since the election, more companies have filed for bankruptcies, personal bankruptcies are up, unemployment this month was the highest in 25 years. GDP was announced today for the biggest drop in 28 years. The dollar has fallen in the last few weeks against a basket of currencies. Existing home sales are up but if you take away foreclosure sales out it was down again. Housing starts are down again. Home prices tumbled by a record 11% in the 3Q. There was not one single good piece of economic news this month. Shit didn't just stop getting bad because the election ended. I assume he will have to make other adjustments and concessions over the course of the next 18 months.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:00 pm

Shouldn't he have had the foresight to realize he was writing checks he couldn't cover once in office given the current circumstances? Personally, I expect that sort of ability from my leaders. There are quite a few people who saw this all coming. Are you saying Obama was blind to it?

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:06 pm

How many people knew it would get this bad this fast? I keep up with things pretty well and 6 months ago I never read one article that suggested it would get this bad. Maybe one sector but not the culmination of all factors together.

I didn't see any politicians campaigning on a Nostradamus platform. If you want a leader that knows the future, I unfortunately, can't point you in the proper direction.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:35 pm

IMHO, Obama did what every politician does. He promised the moon and a few stars in order to get elected, and is now going through the process of lowering expectations. He is trying to stay aloof from the crisis and still appear like he is planning to tackle it. And I have no doubt he's planning to. The alternative isn't an option. The questions are, how, when, and at what cost. I think his maneuverings are currently based in a desire to fix things, yet haven't even been sniffed at by the congresscritters. Those critters will FORCE him to do things that he probably would rather not do right now. He's firing warning shots that they aren't going to get all of their punch list items addressed immediately...and that they should be patient.

So, the honeymoon will be short lived...and the stark reality of the crisis facing him will put him at odds with his own party. Will be interesting to see how the press cheerleads this.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:36 pm

How many people knew it would get this bad this fast? I keep up with things pretty well and 6 months ago I never read one article that suggested it would get this bad. Maybe one sector but not the culmination of all factors together.

I didn't see any politicians campaigning on a Nostradamus platform. If you want a leader that knows the future, I unfortunately, can't point you in the proper direction.

:raising my hand:

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:41 pm

How many people knew it would get this bad this fast? I keep up with things pretty well and 6 months ago I never read one article that suggested it would get this bad. Maybe one sector but not the culmination of all factors together.

I didn't see any politicians campaigning on a Nostradamus platform. If you want a leader that knows the future, I unfortunately, can't point you in the proper direction.

Not familiar with Ron Paul's platform, I see. O0

Also this book: http://www.americasbubbleeconomy.com/ was published last year I think. They basically said there was no way for the DJIA to stay above 13,000 for any sustained period, and recommended getting into the short/puts market back in February of this year. Plenty of people saw it coming. Mainstream politicians are averse to honesty, IMO. They'd rather do their thing and hope for the best.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:46 pm

to be fair to eric...i follow the markets a lil closer than he does and this past historic election has given everyone a huge push to gain knowledge and clarity....that being said - eric does a great job in keeping himself informed and abreast.

aa has been talking about this...a1 has as well...jobs were lost, fat has been trimmed...this is something that has been going on for at least a year...maybe 18 months or more.

point is, and to get back on topic - i support the PE and hope he accomplishes success...i just find it ironic that he's going back on his word to 'change' and he's actually following the mccain game plan....no sour grapes here...just pointing out the obvious to those who don't see it so obvious.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:05 pm

Article published online Dec 31 2007:

Robert Shiller, Professor of Economics at Yale University, predicted that there was a very real possibility that the US would be plunged into a Japan-style slump, with house prices declining for years.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article3111659.ece

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:07 pm

How many people knew it would get this bad this fast? I keep up with things pretty well and 6 months ago I never read one article that suggested it would get this bad. Maybe one sector but not the culmination of all factors together.

I didn't see any politicians campaigning on a Nostradamus platform. If you want a leader that knows the future, I unfortunately, can't point you in the proper direction.

Not familiar with Ron Paul's platform, I see. O0

Also this book: http://www.americasbubbleeconomy.com/ was published last year I think. They basically said there was no way for the DJIA to stay above 13,000 for any sustained period, and recommended getting into the short/puts market back in February of this year. Plenty of people saw it coming. Mainstream politicians are averse to honesty, IMO. They'd rather do their thing and hope for the best.

I am very familiar with Ron Paul and had he been the nominee I would have voted for him in a second. I can't, and won't, employ the "take my ball and go home" strategy. Just because Ron Paul wasn't the nominee doesn't mean I will not care about what happens and just sit back and criticize everything that ANY of the candidates do or try to do.

As for the book, everyone knew the market wasn't going to sustain 13k. I challenge any of you to find tons of information from two years ago that predicted this perfect storm. Credit, housing, unemployment, GDP, bailouts and every other problem we are facing right now. I don't mean one guy that predicted tough times and happen to guess right. Nobody, and I mean nobody knew two years ago when these plans were put together what was coming.

Fuck, a moth before the financials collapse, Rad's boy McCain was talking about how good a shape the markets were in. I guess nobody can see into the future.

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:13 pm

Article published online Dec 31 2007:
Robert Shiller, Professor of Economics at Yale University, predicted that there was a very real possibility that the US would be plunged into a Japan-style slump, with house prices declining for years.
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article3111659.ece

AA, sorry I didn't find anything in that article that predicted the financials collapse, unemployment at a 25 year high, manufacturing at a 28 year low, the auto industry failing etc. Everyone knew that the real estate market was falling, especially in Dec of last year. That article was preaching to the choir at that point. Like I said, you can find one guy that guessed about housing, another guy that guessed about the market, another guy that guessed on GDP. Find a thousand people that knew they were all going to happen and I will criticize Obama for not knowing.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:15 pm

How many people knew it would get this bad this fast? I keep up with things pretty well and 6 months ago I never read one article that suggested it would get this bad. Maybe one sector but not the culmination of all factors together.

I didn't see any politicians campaigning on a Nostradamus platform. If you want a leader that knows the future, I unfortunately, can't point you in the proper direction.

Not familiar with Ron Paul's platform, I see. O0

Also this book: http://www.americasbubbleeconomy.com/ was published last year I think. They basically said there was no way for the DJIA to stay above 13,000 for any sustained period, and recommended getting into the short/puts market back in February of this year. Plenty of people saw it coming. Mainstream politicians are averse to honesty, IMO. They'd rather do their thing and hope for the best.
I am very familiar with Ron Paul and had he been the nominee I would have voted for him in a second. I can't, and won't, employ the "take my ball and go home" strategy. Just because Ron Paul wasn't the nominee doesn't mean I will not care about what happens and just sit back and criticize everything that ANY of the candidates do or try to do.

As for the book, everyone knew the market wasn't going to sustain 13k. I challenge any of you to find tons of information from two years ago that predicted this perfect storm. Credit, housing, unemployment, GDP, bailouts and every other problem we are facing right now. I don't mean one guy that predicted tough times and happen to guess right. Nobody, and I mean nobody knew two years ago when these plans were put together what was coming.

Fuck, a moth before the financials collapse, Rad's boy McCain was talking about how good a shape the markets were in. I guess nobody can see into the future.

e - the financial crisis didn't just happen a month ago or the day the election was decidied....the financial crisis we are in has been in motion for over a year and a half, maybe more...there were companies a year and a half ago writing down billions based on bad loans....believe that brother.

the market, wall street, whatever you wanna call it...it predicates EVERYTHING....believe it brother.