An interesting comparison

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:27 pm

Which of these spent more political contribution and lobbying money in the last election cycle:

* Two largest defense contractors
* Four largest oil companies
* Two largest teachers unions

Yes, it was the teachers. I am sure it was for the kids, though. This actually understates the teacher’s efforts. The corporate donations of the oil and defense companies are spread pretty evenly between both parties. They are simply trying to buy access. The teachers gave their money almost entirely to the Democrats.

TheTodd · Post by **TheTodd** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:36 pm

pay teachers more so they can pay higher union fees

bluegrassg8r · Post by **bluegrassg8r** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm

In a statement issued by the NEA of the ten things that were critical to improving education, seven were directly related to teacher pay.
They're fucking scumbags.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:51 pm

LMMFAO that's pretty funny BG....sounds like a ridiculous list...I don't doubt that some teachers deserve to be paid much more than their current salary, but you can also say that about 85% of the American workforce, IMO.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:50 pm

I have no problem with paying good teachers more, but what I think is good may not be what my neighbor's idea of good is. There lies the problem I guess.

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:24 am

Teachers aren't the problem, and neither is paying teachers more.

The problem is that it's almost impossible to fire bad teachers (and of course, teacher pay is tied to seniority - not performance). There is also an entrenched administrative bureaucracy that commands large salaries for pushing paper and making idiotic "zero tolerance" policies.

TheTodd · Post by **TheTodd** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:38 am

How do you measure teacher performance though? Can't just be pass/fail. Maybe some RPI type measurement that takes in pass/fail ratio, % of students in that teachers class that ended up graduating HS, college, etc and what the mean pay is for those people that used to be that teachers students. That way, you can pay teachers more based on how well their students contribute to the economy.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:54 am

Yeah, I don't think it solely be on the kids and how they score...no one would want to teach in schools where there the parents aren't involved with their kids, etc. It takes more than just a good teacher to teach a kid and I think the measure of a good teacher also includes how they get the parents involved.

I have many teacher friends and family (as I'm sure many of us do) and my one friend I just visited a couple of weeks ago teaches middle school. The Principle came and asked her about teaching the advanced kids next year. When she asked why, they said because she gets along with the parents so well. In her mind THAT is becuase she is a mom herself and says she starts off every meeting with parents with a "thank you..thank you for caring enough to take time out and talk about your child...I know how it is yada yada yada..."

I'm telling you, teachers who actively gain a parent's trust and get them involved seem to do better (at least with elementary school).

my .02

TheTodd · Post by **TheTodd** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:57 am

absolutely correct Alli. See, that just backs up my argument that it would be VERY difficult to find performance based evaluation for teachers. Not saying it can't or shouldn't be done but it would be difficult.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 9:12 am

I agree Todd, but I think a parent's survey could be part of it. They send home parent survey's all the time asking about the school, your child's teachers etc...I would hope they would at least look at my opinion when evaluating a teacher's performance.

But like you said, I know that there are many other factors as well.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:00 am

I made a comment in another thread and hadn't seen this one, yet.

Todd and bg...I share your disdain for unions, but I do believe that higher pay would be part of the solution.

AA, I disagree that 85% of the American workforce deserves to get paid more...I'd say at least half is overpaid. (go ahead...throw bricks at me, people)

Doc, I agree that it should be easier to fire bad teachers (see my disdain for unions), but with current pay rates, IMO, it will be harder to hire GOOD teachers.

I have absolutely no idea what the solution is for evaluating teachers, but I'm enjoying the dialogue thus far.

My argument for paying more is the old theory that if you pay more you'll have a better base of applicants to select teachers from and, thus, should have more qualified/able instructors.