BHO to repeal tax-payer funded abortion ban on 1st day.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:37 pm

We wouldn't have this problem if people could accept the fact that not everyone is destined to reproduce.

MF'ING WERD

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:42 pm

^^And let me add for full disclosure...I include myself in that group at this point--and rightfully so. O0

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:42 pm

Oddly, I find myself in agreement with both AA and Slider on this one.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:45 pm

please tell me you were talking about one of slider's past posts and not confusing me w/ slider.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:46 pm

No...definitely not confusing you with slider.

I agree with his position on stem cell research from fertility clinics. And I also agree with AA that not everyone is destined to, or should, breed.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:50 pm

oh, ok...good.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:51 pm

oh, ok...good.

You're more like Flipcup anyway...

*duck*

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:52 pm

ok...TSIFU.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:09 pm

I understand where you guys are coming from but I hope that this country doesn't go down the road of telling us who can and cannot reproduce...I believe many people should make better decisions for themselves, I don't want to go down that same road as say...China.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:13 pm

all incredibly good questions...AND statement by AA

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:17 pm

why are
ESCR uses fertilized eggs that were produced in fertility clinics and were not used.
why were they not used?

I don't know. All I know is that more fertilized eggs were made then used. That's all I know.

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:25 pm

Question for ya, slider, and I'm asking this out of pure ignorance of the subject, not out of a desire to put you on the spot:

I've heard that the embryonic stem cell research is not actually very promising. The research that has been done thus far (without a government handout) hasn't really led to any new developments. Is this true?

I've also heard that the same research can be conducted using stem cells from other sources, like cord blood. Is that true?

I am not an expert on the subject. But I will tell you what I know.

The advantage of these cells are that they have not differentiated into their precise roles yet. Every cell in our bodies has the exact same DNA. Yet why do muscle cells not make eye cell proteins, and why do blood cells not make nerve proteins? That is one of the major question in biochemistry and developmental biology.

Stem cells have not differentiated. It has been show in a lab that when stem cells were placed in a dish with heart cells for example, they differentiate and become heart cells. This has been show with neurons as well. So you can imagine the treatment possibilities, especially given the fact that many people die due to a shortage of organs for transplantation.

From everything that I have read, ESCR cells are more efficient at this process than adult stem cells. That is why it is so important to follow this line of research. But like I said, I am not an expert in this field, and don't have all the details on this.

Some of the cord blood cells are embryonic stem cells. That is why it is important to save the umbilical cord. For example, heaven forbid you have a child that get leukemia. That blood could be used to treat it.

As with any science, things take time. Look at how long Jerry Lewis has been doing telethons, and MD is still not cured. Will ESCR be the magic bullet cure all? I don't know. But IMHO, it should be pursued.

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:25 pm

please tell me you were talking about one of slider's past posts and not confusing me w/ slider.

You could only hope to be mistaken for me. ;D

RickySlade · Post by **RickySlade** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:47 pm

why are
ESCR uses fertilized eggs that were produced in fertility clinics and were not used.
why were they not used?

They aren't used because the parents don't want any more children. When they remove eggs from the mother, they fertilize a lot of them because there is no way of knowing how many viable embryos they will get, and it often takes several attempts before a woman becomes pregnant...even when implanting several embryos, the pregnancy rate is only around 30%. So, there are often quite a few embryos left over due to the number they initially produce. The people can choose to donate the embryos to other families, destroy them, donate them for some type of research, or pay to keep them in storage.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:41 pm

why are
ESCR uses fertilized eggs that were produced in fertility clinics and were not used.
why were they not used?
They aren't used because the parents don't want any more children. When they remove eggs from the mother, they fertilize a lot of them because there is no way of knowing how many viable embryos they will get, and it often takes several attempts before a woman becomes pregnant...even when implanting several embryos, the pregnancy rate is only around 30%. So, there are often quite a few embryos left over due to the number they initially produce. The people can choose to donate the embryos to other families, destroy them, donate them for some type of research, or pay to keep them in storage.

sounds irresponsible to me...actually - sounds like ordering a large fries and throwing away half just because you ordered too much.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:51 pm

Yes and the "drive-thru" mentality of America created the problem. It is what we are or, rather, who we have become. The society that would freak out over those embryos and refuse to use them for research is part of the past, IMO. We're all a part of this fucked up project of a nation and we have allowed the technology to be created, thus, it must be used to its highest efficiency and productivity.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:53 pm

manipulation.

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:01 am

Not every embryo takes. In fact, in many cases IVF takes a couple of times to work. hence the reason for the extra fertilized eggs.

So I ask again, if they are going to be destroyed, why not use them and get some good out of them?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:57 am

these eggs were scientifically manipulated about in a lab for the express reason of simulating human life.

why not get your own eggs to scientifically manipulate?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:06 am

slider - did you support the bush mandated auto industry bailout package given out via the TARP funds? why or why didn't you?

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:31 am

Yes I did. How does that relate to this question though?

Had the US auto industry gone under it would have sent a ripple effect through an already weakened economy. Not only would it have affected the Big 3, but it would have affected all of the supporting industries around the industry, as well as decimated many "company towns" where the plant is the major manufacturer and biggest job provider. Add to that that auto dealers in all 50 states would have been affected, and you can see how that would have affected all 50 states.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:33 am

it relates because those funds were intended to help the banking and finance industry...not the autos

those eggs were intended to be born...not to be 'frankensteined'

RickySlade · Post by **RickySlade** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:47 am

those eggs were intended to be born...not to be 'frankensteined'

Correct, but the fact is that there are probably half a million in storage that aren't being used. Forget (humor me) about whether or not you agree with extra (or any, at all) embryos being produced and/or frankensteined...here's a simple question, with only two options: you have embryos in storage that will never be used to create life, and you must dispose of them...would you throw them in the trash, or donate them to science?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:11 am

i'd like to say that the decision to dispose of those eggs or to donate them to science SHOULD be given to the donors of those eggs and sperm. as it relates to unused embryos, i don't think a waiver should be signed off on by the donors relinquishing control to the scientists and technicians from the get go...i believe manipulation by scientists would be hard to avoid as over-fertilization would likely occur ensuring more than ample inventory...it'd be to easy for the scientists to over-fertilize as opposed to relocate to another country that DOES endorse this type of research.

that's just the impropriety of the scientists side of equation...what about the donors? surely they'll be compensated...there'll be abuses of that system for sure.

sadly - like the initial procedure and the actual reasoning behind it to begin with, the ability to manipulate the system is far too likely...best to avoid the temptation altogether.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:19 am

Jon and Kate did IVF and they ended up with 7 viable embryos, and ended up with 6 healthy and happy babies.

I will admit I am not nearly well enough informed about stem cell research to give a reasonable opinion. All I can say is that I think all human life is precious and has a purpose...although it is very difficult or nearly impossible to understand why with some.