whoever wins, their first 2 years'll be difficult yet easy to explain away...

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:43 am

my policy is to make sure that the gators will go undefeated for the next 24 years...i will provide this...even though my history indicates otherwise.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:58 am

what are your most important policy stances?

For me, it's the economy primarily and then foreign policy.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:02 am

That is an interesting take, but I think you have to go back prior to 2000 to see where the whole "maverick" thing started.

What can I say? I've read up on McCain. I know he has a good rep with the punditry because of his towel snapping routine with them in 2000. I also know about his career prior to that.

I also have a different take on McCain due to listening to Kim's stepfather, John, who served with the Green Berets in Vietnam and was himself a POW at one time. John has very strong opinions about the man and is not shy about sharing them.

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:34 am

^^ Do tell. I know there's a faction of vets who are very unhappy with McCain because:

1. Lots of POWs were treated the same - or worse - than McCain was and didn't become celebrities; and
2. McCain helped put an end to the search for MIA vets in Viet Nam and to normalize relations with that country.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:55 am

^^ Do tell. I know there's a faction of vets who are very unhappy with McCain because:

1. Lots of POWs were treated the same - or worse - than McCain was and didn't become celebrities; and
2. McCain helped put an end to the search for MIA vets in Viet Nam and to normalize relations with that country.

Actually, John's problem with McCain is due to neither of those issues. John's problem with him is the fact that McCain gave up info to the North Vietnamese and recorded propaganda for them. John's perspective comes from his training as a Green Beret and he was trained to volunteer nothing and, if forced to talk, give only his name and rank. When John was captured, that's what he stuck with. That's his issue with McCain and it's not something I have the moral authority to argue with the way John does. I haven't been there and I'm also not some asshole who's going to run around with a purple heart band-aid on and denigrate anybody's military service. But I also have listened to and respect John's opinion.

The celebrity thing is interesting, though, in that McCain only became a celebrity because of who his daddy was and that plays throughout his whole career. He's the ultimate affirmative action candidate.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:06 am

is that a fact josh? that he gave up stuff to survive in those POW camps? serious? if it's true, that's commentary that has contradicted everything i've read and seen about the man...wow.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:13 am

McCain's admitted he talked, but he glosses over it. Rolling Stone had an interesting piece about his career earlier this month: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:21 am

i'm gonna read it but rolling stone mag? i go to rolling stone to learn more about what the heck tom petty is up to...for real.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:29 am

i'm reading the article and am up to the section titled 'navy brat'...before i begin, i can't help but want to know more about the author of this article tim dickinson

know anything about him josh? age, political affiliation, upbringing, HISTORY? i ask because it gives me a perspective as to where this individual is coming from....gives me an understanding as to his 'slants'....one thing's for sure, he writes very angrily.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:32 am

getting the impression that mr tim dickinson is raking the mccain family over the coals because they are a well-to-do family.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:34 am

lots of dwelling on mccains rambunctious side which took place over 50 years ago...was hoping to read more about his service to country both as a soldier and public servant.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:39 am

lmao - one full page of this internet article dedicated to his social life during his military life....he's well traveled based on this article thus far...

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:46 am

article is getting a bit ridiculous now as mr dickinson is now taking a jab at mccain as it relates to that accident that happened on the flight deck of that carrier.

goes on to say that because mccain is a substandard pilot and that he's destroyed his share of us planes, he knew how to bail out properly...also goes on to say that his injuries sustained were minimal...if he's referencing mccains on comments regarding his injuries as minimal, could it reasonably just be mccain being modest about his own injuries considering men died during that accident?

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:47 am

Pssst. Rad. You're wasting your time, you know...

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:49 am

this is it..the part titled 'violating the code'

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:49 am

Pssst. Rad. You're wasting your time, you know...

i'm thirsty for knowledge.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:50 am

The point about how many jets McCain crashed relates to the question of why he was allowed to continue to fly according to military regs, rad. He should've been grounded after his first crash, if not his second. But he wasn't because of who his daddy was. Special treatment.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:56 am

The point about how many jets McCain crashed relates to the question of why he was allowed to continue to fly according to military regs, rad. He should've been grounded after his first crash, if not his second. But he wasn't because of who his daddy was. Special treatment.

speaking of the institution giving out special treatment, perhaps...but if you're critical of the establishment and/or institution giving out perceived special treatment, shouldn't your issue be with the establishment and/or institution and not so much the one receiving it?

speaking of the individual receiving special treatment, could it possibly be that he just wanted back in to serve and be successful?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 10:58 am

just reading on and mr dickinson is making fun of the fact that mccain was successful in bombing 2 soviet migs upping his record to 2 and 2...2 opposition planes downed, and 2 us planes downed.

kinda losing my respect as an informer of knowledge.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:00 am

dickinson's suggests mccain volunteered to bomb that power plant in hanoi, the one he eventually got captured in, because there were 'medals up for grabs'

is it right to question the intentions of the fighters of our country????

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:03 am

dickinson is suggesting the mccain's 'maverick' attitude contributed to his capture as he should have took evasive measures once he realized his mission was to fail...dickinson is criticizing mccains determination to succeed...mccains quest to succeed ultimately lead to his capture and dickinson suggests it didn't have to end that way.

TTBHG · Post by **TTBHG** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:11 am

is it right to question the intentions of the fighters of our country????

Sure it is. I am as pro-military as one can be. If you don't think that guys join the military just to bomb shit and kill people you are crazy. Just because you wear a uniform doesn't mean your judgement and character can't be question. I am not even talking in the McCain context because I don't know enough about his military service, I am speaking in general terms.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:12 am

re: mccain speaking to his captors of anything other than name, rank, and serial number

mr dickinson quotes the north vietnamese press's comments concerning mccains statements............i realize i'm reading rolling stone but now i'm reading the north vietnam press comments???

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:13 am

The point about how many jets McCain crashed relates to the question of why he was allowed to continue to fly according to military regs, rad. He should've been grounded after his first crash, if not his second. But he wasn't because of who his daddy was. Special treatment.
speaking of the institution giving out special treatment, perhaps...but if you're critical of the establishment and/or institution giving out perceived special treatment, shouldn't your issue be with the establishment and/or institution and not so much the one receiving it?

speaking of the individual receiving special treatment, could it possibly be that he just wanted back in to serve and be successful?

I think I am being critical of both the individual who exploited the special treatment and the institution which gave it. I have much more respect for people who earn it for themselves.

a1bion · Post by **a1bion** » Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:15 am

Still waiting for rad to find any factual inaccuracies, rather than nitpicking about perceived tone.

I'm guessing I'll be waiting for awhile.