Joiner Arrested Tuesday Morning

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:50 pm

http://forums.floridatoday.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:53 pm

i haven't heard details on where the car was towed from so i can't comment on the responsibility of anyone on that matter. rad, gainesville towing companies are notorious for scams. it has been an issue for more than a decade in gainesville. they like to hide the "roam towing" signs, they like to add illegal charges and they like to refuse tender of acceptable forms of payment.

city ordinances were recently amended re:towing to help manage the problems so hopefully it will get better. the point of all this is that it's impossible for any of us to know if the car was towed rightfully or wrongfully. getting towed in gainesville is like a rite of passage for students anyway. people shouldn't be judged simply because their car was towed, IMO.

rad, how do you know she asked Joiner to do something about it?

i don't know...i just think of the two likely scenarios, him doing it because she asked him increases the level of stupidity from like the 6th power to like the 14th power....

and i don't wanna hear about how corrupt, how frequent, how easy it is to get towed...rather - i'd like to hear of how many people have taken matters into their own hands like joiner did and were that stupid enough to essentially take a chance with the law....cause let's face it, he aint returning back to the scene if the 2 witnesses hadn't been there to observe...he would've been on his merry way with her car and would not have paid the 76 bucks...so THEREFORE, what he's basically doing is he's taking a chance with defying the law....but when he realized he wasn't going to get away with complying with the law, only then did he show the smallest amount of intellect...only then did he display minimal judgment by minimizing damages and taking his medicine by waiting for the cops to arrive...i applaud him for that as opposed to fleeing the scene with or without the car and take a chance and potentially get cuffed on campus.

slideman67 · Post by **slideman67** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:55 pm

PHUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!! This sucks!!!!!

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:01 pm

But Rad, did you read the above? It looks like a big misunderstanding to me. It's not like those places are run with the utmost organization. He had done the right thing and made arrangements to pick up the car. Of course, no one was there...what if he had to be back at practice? I mean missing practice isn't a great idea either? Again, I wasn't there and there probably was a better way to handle it...but geez...the owner of the place said it happens to him 20-30 times a year and NONE of those people are ever arrested! So why him?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:04 pm

because he was inconvenienced?!?!

he forcibly opened the gate, entered, took his chicks car, closed the gate? and only when he found out he was discovered did he open the gate, put the car back in and THEN waited for the cops?

what the fuck is he doing up at 4:30AM anyways?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:08 pm

But Rad, did you read the above? It looks like a big misunderstanding to me. It's not like those places are run with the utmost organization. He had done the right thing and made arrangements to pick up the car. Of course, no one was there...what if he had to be back at practice? I mean missing practice isn't a great idea either? Again, I wasn't there and there probably was a better way to handle it...but geez...the owner of the place said it happens to him 20-30 times a year and NONE of those people are ever arrested! So why him?

cause he's a member of the gators...a celeb if you will....and if they don't follow the law to the letter on this case, someone's gonna bitch that the gators get preferential treatment...doesn't matter that 20-30 people DON'T get arrested...it matters that someone of prominence and one that kids (and adults...seniors citizens i might add) look up to did a stupid, foolish thing because he was inconvenienced and wished not to wait til the employee got back....at 430AM...

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:13 pm

Yes, I considering getting my car towed as a major inconvenience. And when I go to do the right thing and I am inconvenienced further, I get frustrated. And if I'm a 22 year old guy who maybe doesn't have the best judgement in the world, I can see how this would happen. I still don't think it's burglary and I still don't think it's worse judgement than smokin' dope. You get one game for that, so if he has to miss a game, then so be it. I just wish it wasn't the LSU game.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:15 pm

so you're saying 1 game is worth trying to save 76 bucks?

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:20 pm

He HAD the money and was ready to pay...that doesn't have anything to do with it...let's just agree to disagree on this one Rad. I'm not saying he did the right thing but making him out to be the biggest dumb ass of all time is not right IMO. And I simply don't agree that athletes should be treated better or worse than anyone else...at least when it comes to the law. Maybe the court of public opinion, but not the law.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:22 pm

because he was inconvenienced?!?!

he forcibly opened the gate, entered, took his chicks car, closed the gate? and only when he found out he was discovered did he open the gate, put the car back in and THEN waited for the cops?

what the fuck is he doing up at 4:30AM anyways?

come on man, you know if your girl called you at 4AM and said her car was towed and she needed it that day, you might just go get it for her then, since you are now awake and your day is too damn busy to go downtown any other time.

it wouldn't surprise me if he had team obligations at 5 or 6am anyway.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:26 pm

I am very interested in hearing what coach thinks and more importantly, what tj thinks

And if he's suspended AFTER lsu, I'll be very upset about that.

Urban, shelly, even tebow - they've all gone to bat for him publicly. He shows lack of judgement and lack of appreciation of others loyalty and belief in him to make the right decision both on and off the field of play

I would like to point this situation out to my children and would like for them to follow the outcome of what is to become of mr joiner. Will the outcome teach my kids that if you do stupid things, you will be punished or will it illustrate to them that if you do stupid things, be more thought out in your planning or will it teach them that if you do stupid things, you will be given chances time after time after time so long as you can contribute to the victory of an second rival.

We all need the joiners, the marcus thomas's, the mike vicks of the world...if not for them, how do we learn the lessons of actions and consequences. It's living life lessons. We'll soon see what message will be taught here.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:39 pm

See Rad, that's what bothers me...you're lumping him in with Vick. I just think of it like every kid is different. Every one of my kids need to be discliplined in a different way and likes to eat different things. They all do stupid stuff, but sometimes the punishment has to be different to make sure they don't do it again. Do I think he should get off with NO punishment, of course not...but it sounds like what you are saying is that it's either black or white...either he's bad or good...and I think there are levels of bad judgement and gray areas. I will leave it up to the coaches to decide.

I'll give you an example...my daughter forgot an important meeting she was supposed to be at and she now may not be able to join the club that the meeting was for. I had a hard time just saying too bad, you get what you pay for. She made a mistake and forgot something...which is something I do quite a bit...it runs in our family to be absent-minded every once in a while. But I did tell her that if the teacher does not accept her excuse, then she'll have to live with it.

I know you hold people to a high standard of perfection but some people just aren't. Doesn't make them evil or not worthy of love, just maybe they can't be CEO's or butlers in the Rad household. [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif[/img]

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:45 pm

Oh, and I must add, that I am almost 100% certain that my husband would totally disagree with me and totally be agreement with you Rad. He gets so friggin' mad when he sees one of our players talking smack during the game or worse, catching an interception in the end zone and running it out...you'd think those guys just beat up one of his kids he gets so mad. So I'm pretty sure he has no sympathy for Joiner and like you is hoping UM doesn't let him play at LSU.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:51 pm

you just made me laugh with that last comment...i don't mean to be argumentative but i'm just asking "who here would've done what joiner did?" with good reason or not...who here would take their own car out of the lot?

is there anyone dumb enough in here to claim that they would do it? i bet not......we'll see.

and in the example you give, you're damn right i would probably say too bad...and why? because i want the children to know that they need to be responsible and their actions speak louder than their intentions...i will be damned if i am to enable my kid to adopt an attitude of 'i have an excuse, please accept it so i can participate' - i just think if all the other kids made it and as a result are now participating, why should anyone else excuse or not.

i might be a bit hard line in my approach but i feel i need to be as an educator and as a figure of authority...tony joiner is still a kid and he needs to learn the life lessons just like everyone else....i betcha...he WANTS to be punished so he can learn and benefit as opposed to skating by...i'll bet that.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:03 pm

I can't honestly say whether I would have done the same thing as Joiner...because I don't know what he was told by teh dude at the impound, because I wasn't there. But I can see a circumstance where if I told the guy I needed to get teh car and I would be there at 4:30 a.m. to get it, and then get there only to find no one there, with no knowledge of WHEN someone would return, yeah, I might go in there and get the car anyway. And like him, knowing I was a football player, I would have sat there and been like "oh chit" when the cops came. But it's hard for me to say because I WASN'T THERE.

And in the case of my daughter, you're probably right, but like every situation there are extenuating (sp?) circumstances. First off, no one told the kids about the opportunity to join this club. It was just a teacher of hers who talked to a few students and decided to start it without putting out any kind of notice to any one. Sort of a word-of-mouth. Well, my nine-year-old heard about it from another student but figured it was one of those things you had to be asked to do. But then after two meetings the teacher called us and said that Lainie should join because she would probably enjoy it. That first day she was supposed to go was also the first day of Chorus and we had to be at the school an hour earlier in the morning...so that was a bit stressful for all of us and when she got out of the car, I neglected to remind her about the club meeting after school. She got on the bus after school, came home and called me immediately crying saying she forgot and got on the bus. Now I'm not saying I'm bitter if the teacher doesnt' let her in, but it sort of pisses me off because the kids in the club that WERE notified of it's existence are the kids that get to do EVERYTHING...not to mention a few of them only go to that school because they lied on the notice of permanent residence so their kids could go to my daughter's good school instead of the crappy ones they are zoned for. But MY daughter, who is zoned for that school and who is a bit timid about putting herself out there as an over-achiever, doesn't get asked to do things unless I find out about it and ask, or if in this case, someone else tells us.

My point in this long story is that there is always a backstory and we all are not privvy to the full disclosure of the situation. That is why I refrain from judging people except on those rare occassions when I have jury duty.

But Rad, I don't mean to be argumentative either...you know I love you...families disagree sometimes, no big whoop!

G8Rpmc · Post by **G8Rpmc** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:21 pm

Florida senior captain Tony Joiner was arrested early Tuesday for removing his girlfriend's car from the property of Watson's Towing in Gainesville but the property owner is upset he was detained and says the whole thing was a misunderstanding more than a crime.

Stan Forron told Florida Today that Joiner had actually talked to the dispatcher who was working early Tuesday morning and had made arrangements to pick up the car. The employee left to get some food and the gate to the company was left open. Joiner showed up to pay the $76 towing bill, waited for some time and got impatient and decided to go ahead and take the car and worry about the bill later.

If this part is true, and the dispatacher said he could get the car and no one was there to pay, I would cut him some slack on this one. Maybe he was prepared to pay the bill at another time....through the mail or something.

He didn't run away. I imagine he thought he could explain the above to the cops, that he had spoken to the dispatacher and made arrangements. I don't know why in the world it had to be at that weird hour.

I can tell you one thing for sure, if my husband went there, thinking he could get the car and no one was there and the gate was open, I know he would have taken the car and mailed in the money, especially if he had spoken to the dispatcher. He can be impatient like that. I might not do it, and I'm not sure Kyle would, but I think Mitch and Robby would take the car and send the money.

It all depends if the story about speaking to the owner is true. Sounds like a horrible misunderstanding to me. He should have waited for the attendant to come back, but I can see why he didn't if the dispatacher said he could get the car.

Just mho...

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:57 pm

Allie - I am not buying it for one second that you would forcibly open a gate and retrieve your car without paying for it. You are a good person and that would simply just not happen. I don't care if they told you they'd be there and weren't. It just wouldn't happen. And so what if the guy wasn't there. Whoopty do. Is that grounds for trespass? You know and I know what the answer is to that.

So where does this leave us? You believe tj needs to be excused from trespass because he didn't mean to do it? What about us law abiders? We get to wait 3 hours at the yard because someone was incompetent AND we get to miss a team obligation that must've been scheduled for him to have this lack of judgement? I'm not willing to take a chance. And if I am taking a chance, I will take my medicine, denounce what I did and move on.

Btw - not that it means anything but does tj have any priors? I don't know and would like to know if he's clean. Not that I would judge him but I'm sure somebody will

And to more important matters to me - young lanie. Young lanie is and will always be a scholastic superstar as you've said. Kudos to her and kudos to you for instilling the beliefs and attitudes that schooling is important. She is on the right path to receiving her fair share of awards and commendations I am sure. But we as parents are not always going to be there to be the safety net for them despite what gloria gaynor says. At some point, we will not be there to assist them in getting what is due them or help get them out of sticky situations. At some point, they will need to be held accountable. At some point, they are going to have to feel the pain and heartache in order to learn lifes valuable lessons. Are we as parents NOT showing love when we act hard line, show authority and discipline. I argue not. In fact, I argue we are deeming them fit to take on lifes challenges....a parent who continues to coddle their children (cough,mrs portis,cough) essentially is saying "you are not mentally and emotionally fit to meet and defeat lifes challenges therefore I am here to continue to make your lifes decisions for you no matter that you are 35" - now I know lanies only 9 but maybe she a mature 9. Maybe she'd understand the whole action/reaction thing.

This is all very long winded and I apologize for being so wordy. I'm partially passionate about the subject matter and I'm partially very fond of you and your family and a lil bit bored

I would just like to finish (finally) by trying to attempt to tie this all in. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Everyone who was ever wrong, ever caught, ever last, ever late, ever not as good, ever not successful - they ALL HAVE EXCUSES - MAN THE FUCK UP and acknowledge there needs to be improvement!!!! I need to be smarter, I need to be better, I need to be stronger, I need to be faster, I need to be more hard working....this is what helps you realize potential. Not excuses. Excuses are enablers to the weak. Excuses are no more than crutches that help us skate by. MAN THE FUCK UP TJ and insist that you be taught your lesson so that you can overcome your shortcomings and make a man of yourself - for your own damn sake! Quit sayin the guy wasn't there, quit sayin I was gonna pay him, quit the excuses. You did something wrong. You're a big boy. Now go get your punishment and embrace it. Cause aint no one gonna punish someone who they don't care about. The county, the state, the law, the university, the team, the fans - they all care. No one wants to see skaters. We want people who are man enough to understand that with actions come consequence. You're in school. Ring the bell - school is in sucka!

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:26 pm

Rad, thanks for the thoughtful response...Lainie is definitely NOT a mature nine year old. And the teacher wouldn't let her into the club (as I suspected). I'm a little annoyed simply because the teacher never even called me back to talk about it. I would have liked to have known HOW the information about the club was distributed. It's very likely that Lainie just wasn't paying attention about it when someone brought it to her attention, in which case, too bad for her. But the teacher never responded to my voice mail about the whole situation. And this is a teacher who is also our neighbor and has been really good to Lainie...taking her to the movies, etc. Maybe she was insulted that Lainie forgot? If so, I understand but at the very least accept her apology and move on. Don't just ignore my questions.

Anyway, I am definitely more pissed about it than Lainie is. I just feel sort of guilty because there are many things that I am just not able to do for her...work, three other kids, makes things rather difficult. I went ahead and got her into chorus which means I have to take her to school an hour early two days a week. Don't ask me how I'm going to manage that when Bill is out of town on business. I am hoping I can find another parent to take her. I couldn't get her into dance classes because we just can't manage the schedules...not to mention the costs. But don't worry too much Rad, Bill is right there with you on toughening them up. I don't by any means coddle them, and I have no problem letting them lie in the beds they made. But there are times when I think I could have done a better job of giving them guidance and advice, and that's when I feel guilty.

In regards to TJ...Rad, I assume you would NOT be in favor of giving him special treatment (i.e. less severe punishment) just because he is an athlete and thus a sort of celebrity? Then why would you be IN favor of giving him harsher punishment (than others who have done the same thing) just because he is an athlete? It's sort of a double standard, no? I think we agree that he probably did something wrong, but I think where we disagree is the extent of the punishment. I just don't think this warrants us putting him the same sentence as Michael Vick. That is not fair...and yes, I know, life isn't fair. But the legal system should be. Now Urban Meyer has to deal with this because this is his family. He will know the details and I trust he will make a fair decision. But I'll tell you, he's in a no win situation...either way someone is going to say he did the wrong thing. But I will live with whatever decision he makes and it will not change my opinion of him either way, because he is the ultiimate judge in this situation. I really don't think this is a situation that deserves to be taking up a bunch of lawyers and judge's time...it's just not that big of a deal, IMO.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:27 pm

Maybe something in his exchange with the dispatcher led Tony to believe he DID have license to enter the gate. Was that belief reasonable? I don't know enough to even begin to guess at the moment.

His quote saying, "I'm probably going to jail cuz I did push the gate open", can be interpreted two ways reasonably, IMO. It can either mean he knew the law prior to his act and did it anyway or that he was talking to some authority figure (Meyer, etc) and he told them what happened, they asked, "Was the gate open or closed?" and he responded as above. Either way, he was in the wrong but IMO to different degrees (i'm making inferences here).

I have questions and I think the press coverage of it is a b s u r d. Anyone read the espn article? Where it mentioned we had players mentioned in an UNRELATED shooting incident saturday night because some random person said they saw them at the club and thus the players were questioned? craziness, IMO.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:45 pm

I feel so dirty doing this...but here is the article from GC re: the distraction. Written by Franz...

This is what Ron Zook called “noise in the system.” It’s what Coach Urban Meyer calls “Florida nonsense.” Whatever you want to call it, this is not the time to have your senior leader on defense arrested. When you have the youngest team in the nation and you’re going into Baton Rouge to face an LSU team that is brimming with future NFL players --- on a Saturday night no less and we all know about Death Valley on Saturday night --- the last thing in the world you need is something like this.

Tony Joiner’s decision to drive his girlfriend’s car from the lot where it had been towed isn’t the kind of mature decision that you expect of a senior and with so few upperclassmen on hand to serve as role models and examples for a team that has already played 49 true freshmen, redshirt freshmen and sophomores, this is a devastating blow.

After Saturday night’s 20-17 loss to Auburn, Meyer called it a “frontal blow,” a term he repeated at his Monday press briefing. If losing to Auburn felt like a frontal assault, then having the senior leader of your very young defense arrested must feel like you got whacked in the back of the head with a shovel.

Any player arrested would be a whack to the back of the head. When the player is Tony Joiner, a guy that the coaches rely on so much and players look up to, it is akin to the guy with the shovel taking aim and whacking the back of your head over and over again.

No matter what time of year, Joiner’s arrest would be a distraction. It would be a problem in February or July. When it happens midway through a season a couple of days after a heartbreaking loss, the loss of focus that it can cause is capable of bringing a team making progress to a standstill.

This is a team making progress. They are 4-1 and ranked seventh in the nation yet they are still trying to feel their way through a whole lot of things on the field. Meyer emphasized Monday at his press conference that this is a team that can’t afford to look more than one day in the future, that the goal each day at practice has to be getting a little bit better than they were yesterday. When you have so many talented but immature young guys with short attention spans, it may not even be a one practice at a time thing, but instead one play in practice at a time.

As Meyer mentioned Monday, the Gators are so young they are still trying to remember how to line up properly on the punt team (see successful fake punt called back because not enough men on the line of scrimmage against Auburn). You expect that kind of thing to happen when 70 percent of the people that play are barely old enough to shave. Each play is an adventure and each day you learn something new is a celebration.

The timing would never be good but to have Joiner in trouble the week of the LSU game doubles up the distraction. LSU has a team of made for the NFL stars and the Tigers will be playing a night game in Death Valley against a bunch of kids, most of whom have never experienced a game day atmosphere on the road quite like the one they will see on Saturday. The last thing you need on a week like this is a full-scale distraction that takes even one second away from the task at hand. The Gators need to be totally focused on the things they need to do to beat an outstanding LSU team, not on another case of “Florida nonsense.”

Now, before I go further, this is not a chance to pile it on Tony Joiner. I like Tony Joiner. I like him a lot, in fact. He plays hard and he’s always been polite and candid with me. I know some of the obstacles he’s overcome in the past four years so it is upsetting to see that he’s in trouble over something trivial as a car being towed and a $76 fine. Maybe it was a misunderstanding, as the owner of the towing company has stated, but still it was not a smart thing on Joiner’s part to try to drive the car off without someone there to acknowledge he had permission to do so. Since apparently no one was at the lot when he got there, the simple thing, the smart thing, would have been to come back later when someone was there.

Even if this matter is cleared up and we find out it really was a misunderstanding, this is a case of bad judgment on Joiner’s part. It affects the team at a very bad time but more importantly, you hope it doesn’t have a negative effect on the rest of his life. Somewhere along the line, some future employer could look at this incident and wonder if Joiner made a bad judgment over something this trivial, what will happen when he has to make a judgment on something truly important?

It is a difficult road ahead for Urban Meyer. He has to (a) deal with the distractions Joiner’s arrest has caused; (b) get his team re-focused; (c) figure out who will start in Joiner’s place Saturday night if things aren’t resolved quickly; and (d) do whatever he can to help Tony Joiner salvage something positive out of a mess made by bad judgment.

Dealing with the distractions will be difficult and even if he gets the team re-focused, will the time lost dealing with a problem result in overlooking or not giving enough attention to something that could prove critical in Saturday’s game? These aren’t the old days in college football when coaches could hold a team on the practice field for hours on end. There is a 20-hour limit imposed by the NCAA so serious distractions can erode the preparation for a big game. The ripple effect of Joiner is cause for serious distraction.

Who to start Saturday night? One solution might be to play Dorian Munroe or Bryan Thomas at strong safety while keeping freshman Major Wright at free safety. Munroe has been playing a lot in nickel packages and he has earned high praise from the Florida coaching staff. Thomas was penciled in to play last year as a true freshman but he hurt his knee and took a redshirt year. He’s been hurt again this year but the coaching staff knows he has speed and playmaking ability. Another solution might be to play senior Kyle Jackson at strong safety. While Jackson has not played well at free safety, perhaps he is better suited to play strong safety where the coverage demands aren’t as great. Another player that might get a look in Joiner’s absence might be redshirt freshman Jamar Hornsby, who has size and speed but very little game experience.

The toughest task might be restoring Tony Joiner.

Joiner is a good kid at heart. He’s overcome so much, cherished his role as a team leader and the respect he’s been afforded by teammates and coaches has allowed him to grow by quantum leaps as a person. Yet, he had a serious lapse of judgment, the kind you might expect of an 18-year-old freshman but certainly not from a 22-year-old senior that was a starter on a national championship team the year before.

The price he’s going to pay for this mistake is going to be severe, not in terms of punishment from the courts --- the $76 will be paid and Joiner will probably get some sort of probation that includes community service if the charges aren’t dropped --- but in terms of lost esteem and self-respect. If the Gators lose this game and it somehow costs them a shot at the Southeastern Conference Championship Game in Atlanta, he will wear burden for a long, long time. If you know Tony Joiner, he will beat himself up unmercifully for what he did. At the time he tried to retrieve his girlfriend’s car, it probably seemed like a good idea. Now that he’s been arrested and he realizes that one dumb moment might have lasting consequences for his team, he will be one very remorseful young man. You can count on that.

This takes us to larger questions. How will Joiner regain the trust and respect of his teammates? They have trusted him as the team leader, but will they take him seriously when he tells them to stay out of trouble when he just had a real lapse in judgment? Can he lead by example again when he just set a bad example? How quickly will he regain the trust of Florida’s coaching staff?

This is where Meyer will have to step in and make an impact. He has a team to worry about but the team is made up of individuals and he’s got one individual that has just made a critical mistake. If Meyer lets Joiner off too easily, the message he sends to the rest of the team is a bad one. If he punishes too severely without somehow restoring dignity to his senior, then there is a bad message there, too. Kids on the team have to know that their coach will treat them fairly and justly even when they have made a colossal goof.

Meyer is perhaps as fine a coach as there is in all of college football. How he handles this situation with Tony Joiner won’t change that. How he handles this situation might change one life, however, and in the bigger picture, that is every bit as important as wins and losses. May he have the wisdom of Solomon in these next few days

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:10 pm

i am in favor of giving all celebrities/athletes/public figures more stiffer penalties than the regular man...i know this is very unpopular given the postings i'd read following the vick case...i feel this way because public figures are so high profile that more people are watching the outcome of this case moreso than the outcome of a case involving the regular man...there's more of an opportunity to make an example of a high profile perp than there is a regular man...so i think you do that...you do just that and you throw the book at him...you do it in the hopes that it deters other persons from repeating those same mistakes high profile persons or not...doesn't matter...obviously the county can only go so far in terms of a punishment given the nature of the crime being a misdemeanor...but urban can get it done right now and send this message to not only his team (a young, freshman rich team) but all of the gator nation (and gator nation haters for that matter) that you don't fuck up...you don't take advantage of second chances, you don't put yourself in predicaments, you don't show lack of judgment when you are counted upon to be a leader of men....he's a captain for gods sake...what kind of example is set if he sits out the first half of the lsu game...ludicrous...

so to answer your question, you're damn right high profile persons should get a heavier hand...something i clipped off the internet as follows - Tebow has a plaque on his wall which reads, “Little Eyes are Watching You,” reminding him always that he’s a role model to children everywhere - tebow is reminded everytime he reads that plaque...what does joiner need to be reminded? a cell phone text every day from shelly meyer? perhaps...a call from urban himself every other day? maybe...a thousand hours of community service AND dismissal off the team? possibly...i will say this, if urban dismisses him, that may be the reminder for all the young men on our team and all the recruits coming and all the 13 year old high school freshman wanting to be a florida gator...does the harsh penalty do more good than harm? i think so.

UFGirlluvr · Post by **UFGirlluvr** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:44 am

Here is my .02, my brother in law had his truck towed while we were in downtown Orlando a few years ago. We got to the lot late at night to get the car back and there was a warning against doing what Joiner did on a real big sign in real big letters. It even had the consequences on it( we ended up stealing the sign, dont ask we were drunk). It just seems something real stupid to do when you have something to lose and it seems no patience to wait for the guy to come back or whatever. I really don't feel bad for Tony because this could have all been avoided quite easily. I don't know it warrants all this attention because it is a small matter but the thing that kills me is the lack of the ability to make the right decision. He is 22 years old. Im going to get off my soap box now and good luck to the Gators this weekend in Baton Rouge

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:26 am

Well, like I said, I think we are agreeing more than we are disagreeing Rad. I do NOT think in the eyes of the law that celebrities should be treated any differently. I just don't think that is what our legal system is about...it's discrimination plain and simple. IMO. However, that does not have anything to do with what Urban should do. I would understand if he did "throw the book at him" so to speak and I can see why TJ being a captain, this maybe should be his course of action...showing the younger team mates how harsh the punishment should be. But I just don't think this case warranted an arrest and a charge of burglary...just because he's a athlete and we need to set an example...that's for the coach to do...not the police. Again, IMO.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:40 am

rad, what punishment does a crime like Joey's deserve in this context? Should we kick him out of the BA?

It seems inherently unfair to hold someone to an arbitrarily high level of scrutiny due to their position in life. Regardless of status, every single one of those people is a human being whose brain works exactly like everyone else's. Their status does not make them "better" people--they don't make smarter decisions and make at least an equal amount of mistakes as the rest of us. They even have the same complicated lives all the rest of us have. In short, there isn't a meaningful reason for them to be considered differently situated. If they are just like everybody else, utilitarian social goals shouldn't take precedent over the rights of the individual to be punished justly and proportionately.

Furthermore, isn't there a concern that capricious punishment of higher profile individuals in the long term could chill the population's aspirations to greater things? After all, if I know I'm going to be judged at an exponentially higher level when I reach a certain status, there's a good chance I'm gonna climb the ladder to the next lowest rung and then lose my motivation. Why would I want to ever take the risk of being punished so harshly by the system? I'm not perfect--I fuck up plenty, like everyone else. So I wouldn't want to even take that chance.

The other thing you have to remember is that no system of judgment is infallible--there will be wrongfully convicted people. And those wrongfully convicted people will be punished at an exponentially high rate, most likely in ways that cannot be paid back in restitution. I believe such destruction of life is more harmful to society than any possible positive effects on other individuals and their decision-making. Why would rely on this method to shape decision making? Can we not teach people to use judgment in their lives without unjustly destroying the life of another human being who has the same rights as you and me? How do we even know the scope or extent of the expected effects on society? I don't see any way to quantify it.

I can see your logic, rad. I just can't believe you would let lives be destroyed to achieve perceived social progress.

UFgirlfan07 · Post by **UFgirlfan07** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:27 pm

Here is my .02, my brother in law had his truck towed while we were in downtown Orlando a few years ago. We got to the lot late at night to get the car back and there was a warning against doing what Joiner did on a real big sign in real big letters. It even had the consequences on it( we ended up stealing the sign, dont ask we were drunk). It just seems something real stupid to do when you have something to lose and it seems no patience to wait for the guy to come back or whatever. I really don't feel bad for Tony because this could have all been avoided quite easily. I don't know it warrants all this attention because it is a small matter but the thing that kills me is the lack of the ability to make the right decision. He is 22 years old. Im going to get off my soap box now and good luck to the Gators this weekend in Baton Rouge

You knew you weren't supposed to take the sign, but you did it anyway. You made a mistake and did something dumb.

Sounds familiar...