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Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:40 pm
by annarborgator
Us peons don't stand a chance playing this video game...
"high frequency trading firms, which represent approximately 2% of the 20,000 or so trading firms operating in the US markets today, account for 73% of all US equity trading volume. These companies include proprietary trading desks for a small number of major investment banks, less than 100 of the most sophisticated hedge funds and hundreds of the most secretive prop shops, all of which operate with one thing in mind—capture profit opportunities by being smarter and faster than the closest competition." And as the market keeps going up day in and day out, regardless of the deteriorating economic conditions, it is just these HFT's that determine the overall market direction, usually without fundamental or technical reason. And based on a few lines of code, retail investors get suckered into a rising market that has nothing to do with green shoots or some Chinese firms buying a few hundred extra Intel servers: HFTs are merely perpetuating the same ponzi market mythology last seen in the Madoff case, but on a massively larger scale. When it all blows up, the question is whether the SEC will go after the perpetrators of this pyramid with the same zeal that it pursued Madoff himself. We think not.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/goldmans-4-billion-high-frequency-trading-wildcard

So the market is made by HFT firms and their code. Their profit is your loss because this game is zero sum. And there's no way you can beat them....might as well play the lottery with your retirement.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:57 pm
by radbag
So the retail investor is inferior as it relates to proper, up to second research, trends, anaysis

All the more to leave it to the professionals to invest your money. If you think GS gets the "inside" angle before everyone else gets it, invest with them

I know you have little regard for money and wealth but again, its irresposible of you to picket and protest the system because it will be you in the end with no retirement nest egg. Sure you'll be rich in pride and morals but you'll not have a pot to piss in. I say embrace the system and benefit for your own sake. Forgo forecasting on your own and allow the pros to do it for you.

At the end of the day - ya gotta put your money where your mouth is. If you feel so strongly about "protesting" the bank and finance system, rip up your credit cards, hand the bank the keys to your house, withdraw all your money from the bank and stuff it in your mattress, and move to central africa. You won't because you have come to rely on the system yourself.

Quit knockin it and just fall in line.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:33 pm
by annarborgator
You sound more and more like a fascist every day. Nice fear mongering there, buddy. Who says I need the stock market to have a retirement nest egg? Who says I need a retirement nest egg in the first place? I probably won't make it past 60 anyway.

The point is that even the professionals are useless when the entire market is run by machines working in nanoseconds that don't use technical or fundamental indicators to invest. They make the market and skim their pennies off every trade. I refuse to pay that tax.

You act like the stock market is the only way to save or invest for retirement. I know your livelihood depends on the markets but come on bro. "Quit knockin it and just fall in line"? Jesus fucking christ man, that sounds like some nazi shit or something.

I only participate in our fucked up system because I have no choice. None of us do. We're slaves in that way. If I can limit my participation then I'll keep it to a minimum to keep my conscience as clear as possible.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:39 pm
by radbag
hey - i don't like the fact that baseball players are making 252MM for 10yrs...i'm still watching baseball....wtf right? can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:03 pm
by annarborgator
Watching baseball isn't a zero sum game. Terrible analogy. They don't take money out of your pocket every time you turn on the TV to watch a game.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:42 pm
by radbag
they do when it costs over 300 bucks for a family of 5 to watch a game it does.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:01 pm
by annarborgator
Yes but you are perfectly free to watch the game on tv at no extra cost. There's no way to invest in the stock market and avoid the HFT tax.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:12 am
by annarborgator
This guy helped build a dark pool from 1998 to 2001. Verry interesting commentary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6wjsArAlX8#ws-hd

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:13 am
by annarborgator
Even more interesting:
In Part I of this series, excerpts of which were first published in November 1995 by the former North Bridge News, we exposed The Depository Trust Company (DTC) as the Unknown $ 9.1 Trillion Company. It appears that our startling discoveries of the inner-workings of the DTC had only scratched the surface. We'd like to add more fuel to this blazing fire by further exposing the DTC and those behind it.

The Depository Trust Company has grown since October 1995. On July 1998, this amount was estimated by a DTC employee at more than $11 Trillion. As of April 19, 1999, the DTC itself has stated in a press release that their asset value is nearly $19 trillion. In 3 1/2 years, their assets increased nearly $ 10 Trillion. That's a lot of stocks and bonds supposedly held in trust. The latest trend over the past ten years is for stock and bond brokers to offer "book-entry ownership" only. Every book-entry stock or bond is literally owned by the DTC. Since 1985, most bond and many stock issuers have converted from the issuance of certificates to book-entry systems administered and controlled by the DTC. As of March 1999, the National Securities Clearing Corporation (NSCC) and the Participants Trust Company (PTC) are now merged into the DTC. Practically, there isn't one stock or bond issued that is not controlled by the DTC.

If you purchase any stock or bond through a broker, it is being held for you under a "street name" by the DTC unless you have specifically requested to hold the certificate yourself. If you have a book entry stock or bond, you won't be issued a certificate. It's important to note that you have purchased that particular stock or bond without becoming a registered holder of the actual stock or bond certificate. Instead, you have become a beneficial owner. The difference between the two is like night and day. Take the time to absorb and understand the following definitions:

REGISTERED HOLDER- A Registered Holder literally possesses, owns, and holds, his stock or bond with his name appearing on the face of the certificate. The company that issued the certificate has registered the owner's (holder's) name on their official books. This is the safest way to own a paper asset. You literally possess the fully registered certificate and only you can transfer or sell it. By all Rights and definition of law, you are the owner. You have it, you hold it, you possess it, and you keep it. You have the complete control over it.

BENEFICIAL OWNER- A Beneficial Owner is nothing more than a beneficiary, "One who is entitled to the benefit of a contract"- A Dictionary of Law, 1893. All book-entry stocks and bonds you purchase make you the beneficial owner, not the registered holder. The owner of a book-entry stock or bond is the entity or name that it is registered under.

The DTC owns that bond or stock, not you. Rather than in your name, it's registered (as the legal Registered Owner or agent) in their "street name", Cede & Company. (In the past, it may have been registered in your broker's street name, but this is no longer allowed). The DTC is the Registered Owner - holder - of your stock or bond. The DTC is the legal property-holder, share-holder, stock-holder, owner and purchaser. Your name appears nowhere on the book entry or certificate as the actual owner. Instead, you have been designated by the legal registered owner, the DTC, as the Beneficial Owner. This means that your lawful Rights in that stock or bond are confined to that of a successor or heir.
http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-000923.htm

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:24 am
by annarborgator
Tasty:
We have a system that is shielded from scrutiny of every type. State regulators cannot successfully subpoena it (as various state regulators have told me) because the DTCC argues it is shielded by federal regulation. Yet when Feds try to look inside it they are simply rebuffed, and are helpless to assert themselves (as a high-level SEC official told some colleagues of mine). The Feds do not understand it (as a former DTCC employee and various Feds have told me). On those occasions that the Feds do get to look inside the system, they get shined-on (as a former DTCC official tells me and a former SEC official confirms). In fact, four years ago when I began this quest, the first thing I tried to do was to find out who regulated the DTCC, and quickly discovered that, other than a brief mention in an obscure GAO report, even the Feds are not sure if they regulate it. And yet, through this opaque system the treasure of the ages passes every week. Such system-design is a recipe for disaster.
http://www.deepcapture.com/the-dtccs-cns-naked-short-selling-residue/

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:27 am
by radbag
not true

every financial institution has a dtc account number...it's the street standard for settling domestic bonds...europe has their own version as well named swift...dtc and the other types of settlement shops hold your bonds and if you sell them, they're book transfered into the buyers account...you pay fees and they do all the administrative stuff for you as it relates to coupons received, registration fees, etc.

there's nothing to the DTC other than it being a virtual safekeeping box.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:09 pm
by annarborgator
Nothing you said makes anything I posted untrue. Of course it's the street standard...it's a monopoly set up by the banks.

DTCC is one of those things (yet another) that works great right up until the moment when all hell breaks loose for whatever reason and then it stops working completely and the little guy gets fucked. Say a Pres calls a national emergency in an EO that effects finance for whatever reason....now you can't even get to the stocks you own. It also makes confiscation much easier considering most of the stuff is held by one trust. Of course that's a worst case kinda scenario...just sayin.

At least it's designed to work decently in general...whereas the dark pools are designed from the beginning to fuck the little guy.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:29 pm
by radbag
get your investments as physical certificates and YOU clip your own coupons and mail them in...but forget getting cash though...you'll only get a check and you'll have to guess what? you'll have to deposit it in the bank...the bank that you have come to hate.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:44 pm
by annarborgator
Credit unions aren't banks.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:50 pm
by annarborgator
Plus there's plenty of small local/regional banks that aren't vampire squid sucking the lifeblood of society.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:04 pm
by radbag
^if you say so....haha.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:07 pm
by annarborgator
So you admit it's the entire industry?

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:19 pm
by radbag
i just think the small/local/regionals are as well trying to make money off making your money make you money.

Why no one should be invested in the stock market

Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:33 pm
by annarborgator
I have no problem with banks making money off making me money. I have a problem when they do it to my (and society's) detriment by focusing on short-term profits without looking out for the best interest of their customers. With small banks the customer is more able to keep track of management and influence decisions when necessary. When I can call up a guy I know who sits on the board of the bank who I know respects my opinion, I would feel a little more comfortable giving that bank my business.