Why you can't make people like you by bombing their country

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:07 am

And why we won't win the war on terrorism anytime soon:

WASHINGTON – American troops made substantial errors and did not strictly follow rules for avoiding casualties during an air assault on Taliban fighters last month, a U.S. defense official said, underscoring a central quandary for President Barack Obama's new Afghan counterinsurgency campaign.

The defense official said Wednesday that a military investigation faulted some of the actions of American troops in air strikes May 4 that killed dozens of Afghan civilians in Farah province.

"Errors were made" in the attack, the official acknowledged on condition of anonymity, discussing one of the preliminary findings on an incident that has strained relations between Washington and Kabul and bred deep resentment among the Afghan people. Civilian deaths in Afghanistan have also enraged Muslims worldwide.

Though the probe looked into the events in early May, commanders for well over a year have focused considerable attention on the problem. It looms as large as ever as the Obama administration streams 21,000 troops into Afghanistan to try to regain momentum in the faltering war.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD98JFAP00

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:37 am

Here's a hint...I don't WANT them to like me. I want them to leave me the fuck alone. And if I have to put the fear of God, Allah, Yahweh or whatever into them to get that to happen, Im ok with that.

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:04 am

I'm of the opinion that wars are only won if you pound the enemy into submission. The whole idea of avoiding civilian casualties is kind of the opposite of what war's about. You should make them so miserable that they want to surrender.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:47 am

Exactly, Doc. That is my theory of war too. Make it so hellish that we, as a people are loathe to go to war, but when we do, may God have mercy on our enemy because we won't.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:59 am

^^Word.

William Tecumseh Sherman had some of the best quotes about war:

“War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.”

“Every attempt to make war easy and safe will result in humiliation and disaster”

“If the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war, and not popularity seeking”

MinGator · Post by **MinGator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:12 pm

MFWORD^^^

Don't want a bomb dropped on or near your home, don't allow the enemy to congregate there. Really they should be glad the collatoral damage is as low as it is, we could be over there carpet bombing their countryside with no regard to the general population. If the local population would make it so difficult for the enemy to meet, sleep or associate in any way in proximity to civilians then the problem would mostly go away. You can't let these f@#kers meet in your living room then piss and moan when we blow up your house.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:04 pm

Case in point: Sherman's bullshit is a big reason I why I will have a passionate hatred for yankees, Lincoln, and the government until the day I die. Almost 150 years later.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:12 pm

Case in point: Sherman's bullshit is a big reason I why I will have a passionate hatred for yankees, Lincoln, and the government until the day I die. Almost 150 years later.

Yes...but how likely are you to take up arms against those yankees, Obama, and the government? That's the point. I would rather they hate AND fear us than just hate us.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:26 pm

At this moment there's almost zero chance I'll ever take up arms against them, because I'm reasonably certain the government (or yankees) won't be coming to burn my house down during my lifetime. But, if I get to the point of not being so sure about that...say, if they start burning their way through central FL...well then the chances would change accordingly.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:05 pm

Sherman's bullshit won him and his side the war.

That's the point, AA.

Despise the man if you'd like, I'm not particularly fond of him myself...but he was dead on about how to win a War. He broke the south of its will to fight...not just its ability.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:43 pm

Sherman's bullshit won him and his side the war.

That's the point, AA.

Despise the man if you'd like, I'm not particularly fond of him myself...but he was dead on about how to win a War. He broke the south of its will to fight...not just its ability.

No, the point is the hatred it bred...and that it seethes within many descendants of the victims of Sherman's atrocities 150 years later.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:48 pm

Wait, I forgot for a minute that the body counts make you guys feel better. And that you don't care if they have good reason to hate us so long as they are destroyed to the point of not posing any threat.

Why don't we just kill everyone? Then we'll have certain peace.

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:30 pm

Wait, I forgot for a minute that the body counts make you guys feel better. And that you don't care if they have good reason to hate us so long as they are destroyed to the point of not posing any threat.

Why don't we just kill everyone? Then we'll have certain peace.

I am for using however much force is necessary to completely defeat the enemy and win the war. What we did to Japan and Germany in WW2 is a perfect example. We did not eradicate the German and Japanese people, but we made it clear to them that we would not stop until we had their UNCONDITIONAL surrender. We were brutal and we were efficient. We waged war terribly and effectively.

Today Germany and Japan are two very prosperous nations. And, to my knowledge, they do not hate us.

THAT is how you fight a war. THAT is how you win a war. And THAT is how you keep from having to fight the goddamn thing over and over and over.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:08 pm

I still say we should just kill everyone. In the entire world. Then there'd be nobody to even worry about. THAT's effectiveness. Why not? We clearly don't give a shit about winning at any cost, right? Civilians are just casualties of war...just blood spilled for the noble cause of american hegemony...nothing wrong with killing them all, right?

Tipmoose · Post by **Tipmoose** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:13 pm

Sometimes the ends justify the means, AA. Not always...but when dealing with vicious animals like those who perpetrated 9/11 and those who beheaded Daniel Pearl...yea...pretty much.

And, for the last time...we don't need to kill em all. Just enough to make sure they, as a people, never want to fuck with us again.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:27 pm

The only way we can be certain they will never want to fuck with us again is by killing them all. So let's stop pussyfooting around and get to it, no?

MinGator · Post by **MinGator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:05 am

We're not out to kill civilians. The fact that these chicken shits hide and meet in civilian areas says that THEY have no regard for the safety of the civilians. We don't put our forward operating bases in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Not that I think it would matter if we did, these folks would attack and bomb us anyway and kill off their own civilians.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:47 am

We might as well be out to kill civilians. We should be out to kill everyone. It's the only way to "win". Just taking the sentiment to the logical conclusion.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:19 am

Oh...and how do we know we aren't out to kill civilians already? We always say we are trying to spread democracy and freedom, but...

"In the middle of the Cold War, the United States played a role in the overthrow of a democratically elected Iranian government," Obama said during his keynote speech to the Muslim world in Cairo.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Obama_admits_US_involvement_in_Iran_06042009.html

So in 50 years when our Czar or President or whatever admits that our strategy was to kill civilians to destroy their will to aid our enemies, how will y'all react? Oh that's right. It won't fucking matter anyway.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:24 am

And Operation Northwoods, of course, planned to kill AMERICAN citizens to rally the country against Cuba.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:31 am

And of course the Operation Gladio terrorist bombings in Italy in the late '60s/early '70s that were most likely sponsored by the CIA in an attempt to get Italians to support more centralized government so we could get them to fight the communist Soviets with us.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:44 am

I wonder if the ease with which Americans support our version of hedgemon-sponsored terrorism stems from the primal urge all animals have toward violence. In today's society we don't allow anyone to use violence except the state and us primates need violence to survive. We're just monkeys who walked off the savannah and put on pants, after all. And since we can't let ourselves be violent, we will defend the violence of the state at every turn.

MinGator · Post by **MinGator** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:01 pm

you've now taken the argument from war to State sponsored terrorism. Two totally different things. I doubt many would argue that there isn't State sponsored terrorism.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:40 am

Agreed.

War...........state sponsored terrorism.....where's the line?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:45 am

let's not forget that the enemy embraces martyrdom..."killing them all" or the collateral damage caused as a result is ok with these people...so you can't put the fear of anyone in them because they've established that they're not afraid...to die that is.