Why you can't make people like you by bombing their country

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:25 am

Sherman's bullshit won him and his side the war.

That's the point, AA.

Despise the man if you'd like, I'm not particularly fond of him myself...but he was dead on about how to win a War. He broke the south of its will to fight...not just its ability.
No, the point is the hatred it bred...and that it seethes within many descendants of the victims of Sherman's atrocities 150 years later.

hatred? really?

I don't like Sherman for one reason...I was born and raised in the South, identify with the South and Sherman fought for the North.

But I don't hate him. Nor do most. I suspect you don't really, either.

Either way, if you hate him or not...I don't see you taking up arms to overthrow the north again.

Your problem in this whole thing is that you think:

1) if we leave them the fuck alone they'll like us.

2) if they like us, they won't attack us.

3) (just going to extreme logical conclusions because that's the game you like to play) if we give the Palestinians their own seperate state then they'll get along with the jews.

well...

1) no they won't.

2) even if they did, they'd still attack us because...well...we're not a muslim country.

3) they won't be happy unless there is NO Israel.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:52 am

hatred? really?

I don't like Sherman for one reason...I was born and raised in the South, identify with the South and Sherman fought for the North.

But I don't hate him. Nor do most. I suspect you don't really, either.

Either way, if you hate him or not...I don't see you taking up arms to overthrow the north again.

Yes, hatred. I'm sure it sounds crazy and it probably is. My family lost everything (except the women did save their dignity after pulling guns on the would-be rapist Union soldiers who accosted them while the men were off fighting the war or serving in government) because of where they were born and lived. The land was burned to the ground. The animals were stolen and the crops destroyed, plunging them into instant financial ruin. My family built this country and that tyrant Lincoln ruined the whole thing.

You're probably right--I don't see myself taking up arms to "overthrow the north again". But who knows what tyranny I will see in my lifetime?

Your problem in this whole thing is that you think:

1) if we leave them the fuck alone they'll like us.

2) if they like us, they won't attack us.

3) (just going to extreme logical conclusions because that's the game you like to play) if we give the Palestinians their own seperate state then they'll get along with the jews.

well...

1) no they won't.

2) even if they did, they'd still attack us because...well...we're not a muslim country.

3) they won't be happy unless there is NO Israel.

You've got me all wrong. I think the only solution is for us to kill them all. In reality, it's the only solution. Too bad it's not really practical. Anything less is destined to fail, which makes me want to at least have a clear conscience in failure, since it's what we're relegated to anyway.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:03 am

hatred? really?

I don't like Sherman for one reason...I was born and raised in the South, identify with the South and Sherman fought for the North.

But I don't hate him. Nor do most. I suspect you don't really, either.

Either way, if you hate him or not...I don't see you taking up arms to overthrow the north again.
Yes, hatred. I'm sure it sounds crazy and it probably is. My family lost everything (except the women did save their dignity after pulling guns on the would-be rapist Union soldiers who accosted them while the men were off fighting the war or serving in government) because of where they were born and lived. The land was burned to the ground. The animals were stolen and the crops destroyed, plunging them into instant financial ruin. My family built this country and that tyrant Lincoln ruined the whole thing.

You're probably right--I don't see myself taking up arms to "overthrow the north again". But who knows what tyranny I will see in my lifetime?

Your problem in this whole thing is that you think:

1) if we leave them the fuck alone they'll like us.

2) if they like us, they won't attack us.

3) (just going to extreme logical conclusions because that's the game you like to play) if we give the Palestinians their own seperate state then they'll get along with the jews.

well...

1) no they won't.

2) even if they did, they'd still attack us because...well...we're not a muslim country.

3) they won't be happy unless there is NO Israel.
You've got me all wrong. I think the only solution is for us to kill them all. In reality, it's the only solution. Too bad it's not really practical. Anything less is destined to fail, which makes me want to at least have a clear conscience in failure, since it's what we're relegated to anyway.

raping and pillaging happened on both sides, AA. It had nothing to do with Sherman or Lincoln. Besides, I don't think there was a whole lot of fighting taking place in Polk County. Lincoln didn't want to financially ruin the South as a whole (perhaps the leaders, but not the rest), and most accounts show he would've been the South's best friend if Booth hadn't killed him.

I disagree that the only solution is to kill them all. I'm sure some Northeners felt the same way about the South and some Americans felt the same about the Nazi's or the Japanese. The reality is you have to hurt them bad enough that they don't want to fight you anymore. Whether it be fear, respect, or whatever.

The only way, and I mean the ONLY way to ensure peace is through total victory.

Maybe, you're right that for this war we'd have to kill them all. I just disagree with that premise at this point.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:12 pm

Most of my family was in GA, SC, TN and KY during the war. The earliest I know of them being in the south is the mid-1700s. My mom is descended from Gen. James Screven who was the first prominent Georgian killed in the Revolution in 1778 in Liberty County, GA by a party of Tories and Indians at Midway Church. My great, great, great grandfather was the Honorable Oddingsell Witherspoon Hart (1803-1874) who was a 4 term Georgia State Senator. His obituary said this:

In the late war his residence was visited by Kilpatrick's dragoon's who were as merciless as the cavaliers of Claverhouse. Stretched on a bed of illness, he (Oddingsell) lay powerless and was robbed of everything, even the blankets that protected him from the wintry cold. The incarnate devils with their jack boots stove in the bureaus of his daughters, broke open their trunks, and strewed their contents all around. One stalwart fiend even attempted to proceed to greater extremes. Ordering one of the young ladies to open her trunk, while she stooped to do so, the wretch threw his arm familiarly about her person. But prepared for this emergency by her sick father, the brave girl sprang to her feet and presenting a pistol to the head of the ruffian bade him begone. He shrank away abashed and cowering from her presence. They then shot down cattle, sheep and horses, and completely devastated the premises.

My forebears before that built Pennsylvania from the ground up alongside William Penn. So, yea, I think I have reason to be a little passionate. This is my fucking country, man, and it seems to me that we've fucked it up beyond recognition in every conceivable way.

I'm sure the pillaging did go on with both sides...which is why I blame Lincoln because he blocked secession which was blatantly ultra vires. It starts at the top.

Oh, and I don't see how a confederate soldier could have raped a yank woman....they don't know how to say no, do they?

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:24 pm

what a history you got there...phenom!

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:43 pm

LOL about the Yank woman...

I wasn't trying to belittle, demean or diminish your family. I apologize if I came off that way.

However, it's my country, too. I'm all for state rights and whathaveyou, but if we allow secession, then we don't really have a union. I side with Lincoln in that he had to fight against it.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:46 pm

My mom's done a ton of genealogy research...makes me damn proud....now if only I could live up to the standard those folks set!

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:00 pm

LOL about the Yank woman...

I wasn't trying to belittle, demean or diminish your family. I apologize if I came off that way.

However, it's my country, too. I'm all for state rights and whathaveyou, but if we allow secession, then we don't really have a union. I side with Lincoln in that he had to fight against it.

I didn't take it as belittling...just wanted you to know where I'm coming from since it informs so much of my viewpoint.

As for secession...I just find it baffling the logical gymnastics we have to go through to come to the conclusion that secession isn't legal (aka the Articles were too weak (aka the federalists couldn't tax us to death) to effectuate their purpose...since we made the central government stronger with the Constitution there's NO WAY they meant to allow secession, since the original Articles were 'perpetual). IMO, if there's a law that expressly provides for "X" (the Articles providing for the Union to be perpetual), and the people decide to rewrite that law and replace it with an entirely new law (the Constitution), if the new law doesn't include the express provision for "X" then the people are no longer bound by the term "X". I think they left out the perpetual aspect of the agreement as a basic check on the massively centralized power they knew they were creating.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:31 pm

Been researching the history of Islam....those fuckers are crazy! I was halfway being snide before when I talked about killing them all...now, I'm starting to think it may really be the only way...sad but true.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:14 pm

Been researching the history of Islam....those fuckers are crazy! I was halfway being snide before when I talked about killing them all...now, I'm starting to think it may really be the only way...sad but true.

Ya think?

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:44 pm

Well I mean I know the terrorists are crazy...but the fact that the religion is based on Muhammad makes the whole damn thing crazy, IMO. It just seems nuts to me that anyone could be muslim when the religion was started by a warrior and has tried to take over the world how many times now?