Why do we allow usury?

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annarborgator
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:48 pm

Why do we allow usury?

Post by annarborgator »

Serious question for the finance types out there. Is it fundamentally necessary to our economy in some way to allow usury? Islamic banks have come through the crisis less damaged than western institutions:
France is becoming the latest country to woo Islamic banks, which avoided much of the damage from the subprime mortgage crisis by following strict principles laid out in the Quran — as the global financial crisis broadens the appeal of Islamic finance.

French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde has promised to make adjustments to the regulatory and legal arsenal to enable Paris to become a major marketplace in Islamic finance.

At a recent forum in Paris, she said Western financiers could learn a thing or two from the Islamic world as global leaders try to establish "new principles for the international financial system, based on transparency, responsibility and, I would like to add, moderation."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hhLD72VsDDxkQMxJiecdrOgvT1ewD9595GJO0

And, of course, the Christian Bible also outlaws usury, but for some reason we love it:

Western bankers have made themselves demigods with a combination of usury and legalized state-sanctioned counterfeiting. They attack anyone who represents any threat ot their enslavement of others, whether it is the Islamic system of lending or the re-introduction of fixed worth monetary systems.

And, contrary to the popular myth promulgated by the "Clash of Civilization" aficionados, the prohibition against usury (compound interest) is not confined to the Quran, but is found in the Bible itself. The following are taken from the King James version of the Bible (and I'll bet your pastors never read these to you from the pulpit!)

25 " If you lend money to any of My people who are poor among you, you shall not be like a moneylender to him; you shall not charge him interest.


26 "If you ever take your neighbor's garment as a pledge, you shall return it to him before the sun goes down.


27 "For that is his only covering, it is his garment for his skin. What will he sleep in? And it will be that when he cries to Me, I will hear, for I am gracious. (Exodus 22:25-27)

36 'Take no usury or interest from him; but fear your God, that your brother may live with you.

37 'You shall not lend him your money for usury, nor lend him your food at a profit. (Leviticus 25:36-37)

19 " You shall not charge interest to your brother -- interest on money or food or anything that is lent out at interest.
(Deuteronomy 23:20)

10 Woe is me, my mother, That you have borne me, A man of strife and a man of contention to the whole earth! I have neither lent for interest, Nor have men lent to me for interest. Every one of them curses me. (Jeremiah 15:10)

7 If he has not oppressed anyone, But has restored to the debtor his pledge; Has robbed no one by violence, But has given his bread to the hungry And covered the naked with clothing;

8 If he has not exacted usury Nor taken any increase, But has withdrawn his hand from iniquity And executed true judgment between man and man;

9 If he has walked in My statutes And kept My judgments faithfully -- He is just; He shall surely live!" Says the Lord GOD. (Ezekiel 18:7-9)

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13 If he has exacted usury Or taken increase -- Shall he then live? He shall not live! If he has done any of these abominations, He shall surely die; His blood shall be upon him. (Ezekiel 18:13)

17 Who has withdrawn his hand from the poor And not received usury or increase, But has executed My judgments And walked in My statutes -- He shall not die for the iniquity of his father; He shall surely live! (Ezekiel 18:17)

12 "In you they take bribes to shed blood; you take usury and increase; you have made profit from your neighbors by extortion, and have forgotten Me," says the Lord GOD. (Ezekiel 22:12)
So why do we need usurers in this great nation? To let them steal our money? To give all of us the chance to steal from everyone else? That sounds insane.
I've never met a retarded person who wasn't smiling.
DocZaius
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Why do we allow usury?

Post by DocZaius »

During the Middle Ages, most European countries outlawed usury - but only as practiced by Christians. Jews were permitted, and thus the stereotype of the money-hungry Jew was born.
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AdGator02
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:29 pm

Why do we allow usury?

Post by AdGator02 »

Call me a bigot, but I don't want Islamic rules in my finances (or any other aspect of life) and don't want to be involved in theirs. France is stupid and will most likely see its culture erode slowly.

I have no problem with usury, without it I wouldn't have an education or a car. The issue is lending to irresponsible people and/or faulty/no regulations.
TheTodd
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Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:57 pm

Why do we allow usury?

Post by TheTodd »

Ad, those aren't just Islamic rules, they're Christian too. They are just kind of ignored. I guess it's ok to have freedom of/from religion when money is to be made. Want some personal freedoms though, no fucking way!

http://www.askthepriest.org/askthepriest/2005/10/never_a_borrowe.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15235c.htm
“The Knave abideth.” I dare speak not for thee, but this maketh me to be of good comfort; I deem it well that he be out there, the Knave, being of good ease for we sinners.
annarborgator
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:48 pm

Why do we allow usury?

Post by annarborgator »

Call me a bigot, but I don't want Islamic rules in my finances (or any other aspect of life) and don't want to be involved in theirs. France is stupid and will most likely see its culture erode slowly.

I have no problem with usury, without it I wouldn't have an education or a car. The issue is lending to irresponsible people and/or faulty/no regulations.
If banks couldn't rape people they wouldn't be able to make enough profit lending to those irresponsible people. Bigot. ;)
I've never met a retarded person who wasn't smiling.
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