"Americans need to pay for China's greenhouse emissions"

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:32 pm

Um, what the fuck?

With the U.S. secretaries of energy and commerce in China this week, much of the attention focused on the standoff over emissions reductions or small breakthroughs in clean-tech cooperation.

But yesterday, Commerce Secretary Gary Locke said something amazing—U.S. consumers should pay for part of Chinese greenhouse-gas emissions. From Reuters:

“It’s important that those who consume the products being made all around the world to the benefit of America — and it’s our own consumption activity that’s causing the emission of greenhouse gases, then quite frankly Americans need to pay for that,” Commerce Secretary Gary Locke told the American Chamber of Commerce in Shanghai.

The idea that rich-country consumers should pick up the tab for some of China’s industrial emissions has been gaining currency lately—but not from within the Obama administration. The argument is that many of China’s factories churn out cheap stuff for the West, not for domestic consumption, so those consumers are actually responsible for the emissions. China, of course, loves the idea.

http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2009/07/17/commerce-secretary-americans-need-to-pay-for-chinese-emissions/

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:34 am

more apologies for our bad behavior it seems.

G8rMom7 · Post by **G8rMom7** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:56 am

Are they saying that they will start charging or taxing us more on stuff from China, hoping we won't buy it and force them to control their emissions? Personally I think this is all a "much ado about nothing" because I don't think these "greenhouse gases" are what is causing the climate change...if there really has been any major climate change at all. But I do have a friend who is living in China now and she says it's filthy, so I think it's sad they don't care enough about their own country to clean it up.

DocZaius · Post by **DocZaius** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:07 am

If you buy into "global climate change," or whatever they're calling it these days, then you have to also admit that anything the United States does about it is insignificant compared to the amount of pollution developing industrial nations like China and India spew into the atmosphere.

IHateUGAlyDawgs · Post by **IHateUGAlyDawgs** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:43 am

but Doc, if it wasn't for american greed and consumption China and India wouldn't be developing all this stuff.

radbag · Post by **radbag** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:23 am

Are they saying that they will start charging or taxing us more on stuff from China, hoping we won't buy it and force them to control their emissions? Personally I think this is all a "much ado about nothing" because I don't think these "greenhouse gases" are what is causing the climate change...if there really has been any major climate change at all. But I do have a friend who is living in China now and she says it's filthy, so I think it's sad they don't care enough about their own country to clean it up.

the way i read it, sounds as if it'd be a straight up tax justified because we benefit from 'cheap' imports.

G8RKyle · Post by **G8RKyle** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:20 pm

Just to throw out some numbers. Our atmosphere is 79% Nitrogen, 20% Oxygen, 1% other. So CO2 is part of that "other" category. Now, out of all the CO2, humans account for something like 1/2 of a percent. It's a colorless, odorless gas. Tell me again how it's supposed to be warming, or cooling the earth? As much as we humans do, we are still very insignificant when it comes to the size and scope of our planet.

MinGator · Post by **MinGator** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:13 pm

Think I mentioned this elsewhere but I don't know that we have to deny the earth may be warming, but I seriously doubt is has anything to do with human influence.
Again, don't package up a big fear mongering campaign and tell me we'll all need house boats in a few years if we don't by a Prius. Conservation should be for conservations sake, for the future generations etc. Not because you have tons of skin in the game of carbon credits or cap a-n-d trade.

MinGator · Post by **MinGator** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:15 pm

Oh a-n-d F China, they can fix the chit on their end on their own. Let's also acknowledge that is not just our greed. If they didn't have greed for our money they wouldn't see fit to produce for our consumer needs. It's a two way street.

annarborgator · Post by **annarborgator** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:57 pm

It's also a sort of self preservation on their part because our consumption is the only thing keeping their country together. If they can't continue their insane GDP growth based off exports to us then they will have a revolution on their hands inside 5 years...there's just too many people over there for them to find jobs for without us buying all their shit.

The model is totally broken and I think at this point those in power are just making a last grab to try to sustain themselves through the massive transition that's headed toward the entire world.