The Back Alley Archives

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T12:10:05-05:00

See, one thing we might disagree on is that I think it is the job of government to get something done. Unfortunately what we have now is a situation where party loyalty is more important than country. If we have the right people in there, something positive might get done. As opposed to now where Republicans are preventing cloture votes on many Democratic initiatives, in effect filibustering them. They have effectively been doing that for the majority of this current Congress.

And whatever we do, even if we agree to disagree, let's be sure to keep the conversation civil. I am a card carrying member of the DNC, and I have definite opinions about the Republican Party (let's just say I don't like them very much). I'd be happy to discuss them in a PM. But the last thing any of us want here is for this board to degenerate into Too Hot level idiocy.

Oh believe me, I think the government should get things done. The list of jobs I think the government should be responsible for is probably much shorter than yours, though. That's just a guess, given my stance compared to both parties.

I can completely understand any dislike you have for the Republican party as it currently stands. I disagree with the neocons pretty strongly and the neocons run the Republican party these days. I also disagree with the welfare state (i.e. the government takes care of citizens from cradle to grave) that our great nation has become, while the Democrats seemingly want to expand that mentality. I understand the motivations behind both parties' goals and I honestly think that many politicians (and citizens) on both sides of the aisle *believe* they have the country's best interests at heart.

That's why so many political discussions involve hurt feelings, because ultimately you are telling someone either (1) they are wrong or (2) their motivations are misguided (or both). Either of these things can be extremely difficult to express in a manner that's not taken personally. Part of the difficulty is the role played by each individual's mindset and level of security in their political beliefs and stances. I'm not very sensitive about this stuff to be honest. Given the inherent complexity in the federal government, it's easy to see that there's simply no way I can have all the answers. I do, however, employ strong rhetorical devices at times in political discussions because my ideas seem to diverge from the normal realm of today's political discourse. Given my somewhat different stances, in order for people to see that I'm serious about what I believe, strong rhetoric can become necessary. I don't attempt to employ personal attacks, although it's probably easy for my rhetoric to feel like personal attacks for someone like yourself who identifies closely with a political party. Just remember that I too believe that country must fundamentally come before any one party or idea.

Statistics: Posted by annarborgator — Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:10 pm

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T11:26:01-05:00

I know I won't take things personal, and I don't like confrontation. I usually just say what I think, and try not to step on anyone's toes.
Everyone has their own reasons for thinking the way they do about politics. No one is going to really change someone else's mind unless
that person is open to coming around to a new way of thinking.

People in Too Hot are like the campus preacher. They will beat you over the head with something while they themselves have completely
missed the message. At least, the jerks are like that. Don't get me started on how much damage those campus preachers in Turlington
have hurt the cause of Christ, and given Christians everywhere a bad rap.

Completely agree on both points... I can't believe that the people on too hot exist in real life... at least not like their internet personas... How could they function?

Statistics: Posted by wpfox16 — Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:26 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T10:38:31-05:00

I know I won't take things personal, and I don't like confrontation. I usually just say what I think, and try not to step on anyone's toes.
Everyone has their own reasons for thinking the way they do about politics. No one is going to really change someone else's mind unless
that person is open to coming around to a new way of thinking.

People in Too Hot are like the campus preacher. They will beat you over the head with something while they themselves have completely
missed the message. At least, the jerks are like that. Don't get me started on how much damage those campus preachers in Turlington
have hurt the cause of Christ, and given Christians everywhere a bad rap.

Statistics: Posted by G8RKyle — Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:38 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T10:31:54-05:00

I can - its not a problem. I just know from experience that people can take things personally. I just wanted to point that out. No harm, no foul.

Statistics: Posted by slideman67 — Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:31 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T10:16:26-05:00

Slide, I just wanted to let you know that I think we all have been doing a fine job of discussing political issues here in teh BA. You are always so concerned with it being like Too Hot and I have yet to see where people are bashing one another personally.

I personally think the BA has plenty of VERY intelligent and well-informed members who are both liberal and conservative (and some in the middle like AA) and as long as you can express your opinions and even sometimes facts without attacking someone personally (as we have done in this thread and others) then I fail to understand why your constant comments about the "idiocracy" of Too Hot has anything to do with it?

Are you personally able to discuss this without getting nasty toward other individuals? I would hope you could...so feel free to speak your mind. IMO.

Statistics: Posted by G8rMom7 — Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:16 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T10:08:56-05:00

I disagree with you on one fundamental thing slide. I believe it is the job of government to get out of the way
to let the People get things done.

Statistics: Posted by G8RKyle — Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:08 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T10:05:09-05:00

slide, I think it's interesting that you seem to fail to see that the issue is more fundamental than (R) or (D). It has more to do with the problem that arises when the already too powerful federal government can centralize power in its two most powerfully active branches. Any such centralization of force is inherently dangerous, which seems rather plain to see, IMO.

Thanks for at least attempting to be the voice of reason with your now patented "do you really want to go down this path?" question.

See, one thing we might disagree on is that I think it is the job of government to get something done. Unfortunately what we have now is a situation where party loyalty is more important than country. If we have the right people in there, something positive might get done. As opposed to now where Republicans are preventing cloture votes on many Democratic initiatives, in effect filibustering them. They have effectively been doing that for the majority of this current Congress.

And whatever we do, even if we agree to disagree, let's be sure to keep the conversation civil. I am a card carrying member of the DNC, and I have definite opinions about the Republican Party (let's just say I don't like them very much). I'd be happy to discuss them in a PM. But the last thing any of us want here is for this board to degenerate into Too Hot level idiocy.

Statistics: Posted by slideman67 — Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:05 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T09:06:33-05:00

I share that opinion...one I did not have when it came to John Kerry.

Statistics: Posted by RickySlade — Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:06 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T08:28:38-05:00

it seems like promises from either side aren't going to be fulfilled. it's hard to get stuff done in washington, especially with people who need to be reelected. as kyle said, both branches were republican and they weren't able to accomplish as much as republican voters would have liked.

i used to get really worked up about having the 'right' person in office or at least not having the 'wrong' one, but in reality i don't see mccain or obama doing worse than bush (yes, I know that offends some, sorry, but I think the man is a complete moron). I know people disagree with that statement, but that's why our country is great. we're all entitled to an opinion.

Statistics: Posted by AdGator02 — Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:28 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T07:57:28-05:00

We somehow need to vote most of these bastard politicians out of there. Of course, the only people running
are for the most part bastard politicians. Bastards!

Statistics: Posted by G8RKyle — Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:57 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-24T07:56:39-05:00

I think everyone here knows that both parties have been screwing us. The Republican party says it stands for more of what I believe, but last
time they got elected, had the house, senate and Presidency they didn't do squat of what they promised. Now, what the Dems promise scares me.
So I lose either way.

Statistics: Posted by G8RKyle — Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:56 am

scary for the democrats

2008-06-23T18:40:06-05:00

slide, I think it's interesting that you seem to fail to see that the issue is more fundamental than (R) or (D). It has more to do with the problem that arises when the already too powerful federal government can centralize power in its two most powerfully active branches. Any such centralization of force is inherently dangerous, which seems rather plain to see, IMO.

Thanks for at least attempting to be the voice of reason with your now patented "do you really want to go down this path?" question.

Statistics: Posted by annarborgator — Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:40 pm

scary for the democrats

2008-06-23T17:45:17-05:00

Actually, that will be a very good thing. [img]{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif[/img]

It's really stunning to me that people can believe that.

Do you really want to go down this path? Considering what a disaster having W and a Republican Congress at the same time was.

Let's not say anything on this board that is going to get ugly. The last thing we need here is to degerate into Too Hot level stupidity.

Statistics: Posted by slideman67 — Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:45 pm

scary for the democrats

2008-06-23T17:25:41-05:00

i played in a golf tournament for Virginia Congressman Randy Forbes and after the tournament he addressed the participants during lunch. now i have not done any research to back this up but he said right now that 67% of the fed budget goes to entitlement programs, leaving only 33% left to pay for the things that the constitution says the fed gov't should be paying for. now even if that figure is off as much as 17% and 50% of the budget is going to entitlement programs it is WAAAAAAAY too much. now i don't put this on the pubs or the dems, i put this at the foot of politicians altogether. as said above the problem with the gov't is that it has to feed itself in order to survive, because as soon as you don't promise your constituents the world, you'll never get elected again because someone else will.
i often think that maybe there should be a limit of one term in Fed gov't. i'm ok with making the term 8 years but only one. that way there is no incentive to give, give, give because your next election isn't riding on it. maybe then by removing the dangling re-election carrot from in front of their eyes they will focus on the real issues and real people.

Statistics: Posted by MinGator — Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:25 pm

scary for the democrats

2008-06-23T12:27:13-05:00

I think this is very telling of his attitude towards tax policy. It's "take from the haves" and give to the government.*

* Note purposeful omission of "have-nots." I don't believe that any politician has the will or the ability to lift anyone out of poverty. It's all about the money, folks. The more government you have, the more government dependency you have and the more political power one party or the other has.

And the problem is, once you give something to the government, it's nearly impossible for the people to wrestle the power back into their possession at any point in the future. The government seems only to grow.

agreed.

Democrats have done a remarkable job of glorifing being poor and criminalizing being wealthy, as Kyle mentioned. What really bothers me is that a large bulk fo their supporters fail to realize is that by supporting these programs it isn't helping them at all, but making them more dependent on the government to live their life (place to live, eat, work, etc.). It's either that or they're just too damn lazy to care. Either way, I have no respect for that line of thinking.

Statistics: Posted by IHateUGAlyDawgs — Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:27 pm